myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Mast sizes
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a foil....
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=zw0MgkO7VXw
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2701

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

outcast wrote:
Just get a foil....


You would think? Except some of these numb nuts are putting 10 meter sails on foils??????

Go figure.

Coachg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 694

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raceboard sails can use 550s I believe, but just like the foil racers running 10m it's not going to get you going in less wind, just add a few degrees of angle upwind. Kind of like how a formula board will plane about the same with a 9.5 or 12m but the 12m will have better angles.

RTZ seems to want to stuff the biggest sail on his beginner board rather than learn enough to ditch it for something that'll actually work in light winds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ss59



Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Kind of like how a formula board will plane about the same with a 9.5 or 12m but the 12m will have better angles.


does this mean that if there was enough wind to plane with either a 9.5 or a 12m, the 12m would be able to point higher??? My logic would have thought it was the other way around.

Could you explain this for me, please? Do bigger sails point higher and if so, why?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4180
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointing high and reaching low requires lots of power. Just planing slightly off the wind needs the least sail power.
Typical steady 17 mph day, you have Formula on 11 meters, slalom dudes on 8 meters, freeride guys zipping along on 6 meters, wave and freestylers on 5.3's, and lightwind foilers on 4.7's. Race foulers on 8's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 694

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming you change only the sail size, not design or anything else, the bigger one will point higher until it becomes too large to control.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2272
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big sails develop more power than smaller sails but aren't always faster. We get upwind mostly through speed of the water across the fin, not because of our sail size per se. Sail the smallest sail you can use for the particular application.

Learning to shortboard with a large sail is a potential disaster because large sails also come with drafts that move a greater distance. To control this, large sails require very precise tuning and very specific masts -at least most huge cambered sails push the sailor around when not tuned well.

As others say, FW racers must use the huge sizes to achieve downwind speed and angle. No-one interested in a few degrees needs that nonsense.

_________________
Support Your Sport. Join US Windsurfing!
www.USWindsurfing.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3286

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

off the wind, size matters.

going upwind lift to drag and skills matter more than sizes.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 694

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't something like ~30% of a formula sail dedicated to JUST drag reduction? IE: not contributing to planing power but only an effective part of the system once lit up?
I know raceboard sails are if anything more powerful at 9.5m but can't hit the speeds because of their drag penalty (which matches the board's capabilities).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2272
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Isn't something like ~30% of a formula sail dedicated to JUST drag reduction? IE: not contributing to planing power but only an effective part of the system once lit up?
I know raceboard sails are if anything more powerful at 9.5m but can't hit the speeds because of their drag penalty (which matches the board's capabilities).


Sort of. The shaping of FW sails are intended to produce speed upwind by reducing drag through the ability to make the leading entry fairly lean while keeping the draft stable. TFW sails tend to allow greater rotation through only adjusting the outhaul, whereas Raceboard sails rely on the addition of a running downhaul to control shape.

As for raw power, the measure is more of useful power. A Raceboard sail develops more rotational lift, meaning it feels like it pulls on your back hand more easily, but the Raceboard's coffin-style rails and long waterline turn that rotational lift into forward movement. A FW board develops far less rotational lift since that impedes a balanced feel from the board and fin when planing. So it's hard to say which 9.5 develops more power, but it's easy to mistake rotational lift for "power" as we feel the sail.

Remember, the pros used 6.6-7.2 in the 1980s when racing longboards. Those sails pulled like tractors but could not get out of their own way when planing, at least compared to the new sails.

So that's the key: Planing hulls demanded that sail sizes to grow based on increase of the downwind leg's angle. We don't need much more than 8.0 and 12 knots to rip upwind but that 8.0 will never generate the lift needed to plane really deep downwind in the same wind speed. Therefore, since sailors remained the same size, the larger sails had to be shaped with the ability to depower upwind (including greatly reduced drag per square meter) so as not to overpower the sailor yet change the entry rotation and twist off to keep speeds high in the variable apparent wind angles encountered when sailing deep.

_________________
Support Your Sport. Join US Windsurfing!
www.USWindsurfing.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group