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Long harness line users
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2273
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
DW wrote:
Long lines for racing came into fashion so many years ago, I canít recall anymore. Nevin Sayre (spelling?) was the guy I looked up to at the time, and that caused me to go longer, because he was longer than anybody. <snip>
To this day, I believe excessively short lines are horribly inefficient. Guys on super short lines often are the ones that need to rig bigger than anyone else just to plane.

As I've mentioned here many times, Sayre retracted that advice many years ago. Ditto his historical disavowment of two-piece masts.

I don't give a hoot about efficiency, as defined by the ratio of sail size to windspeed. IMO, it pales in comparison to the 20 advantages to rigging big, not even counting its universal favor among Gorge racerhedz.

No he didn't. Nevin still uses very long lines when racing longboards (the Kona One is all he races these days) because he has very, very long arms. He did use slightly shorter lines when course/slalom boards were being developed in the early 90s and then also as the race sails of the early to mid 90s combined with higher aspect rocker lines. Shorter lines helped keep everything stable at speed.

As for two-piece masts, they became so due to the excessive cost to ship single-piece masts. That, and two-piece masts make any sort of traveling easier. Most two-piece masts made in the early to mid-90s had a significant flat spot caused by the ferrule. Fiberspar developed a conical ferrule that removed much but not all of this flat spot, but not without much effort and expense. Two-piece masts are always heavier and offer a higher center of gravity, slight as it may be, each of which is the opposite of what any sailor wants. Nevin changed his tune about two-piece masts due to both situations, but I know he'd go back to single piece for professional racing if the travel and shipping issues weren't in play.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19020

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You and I are reading very different things in the windsurfing literature, on both counts. What I've read in the magazines is this:
1. He retracted his advice to have his lines so long that even he can barely reach the boom at all.

2. He finally found that the new mast construction technologies all but eliminate the advantage of one-piece masts.

If that is good enough for the world's best (and thus pickiest) racers, we mortals -- especially novices and most recreational sailors in general -- REALLY don't benefit from them.

Besides, I base my own preferences on the many specific criteria -- clearly very different from his -- I've posted in previous line length threads. I see no way in hell that ANYONE could maneuver extensively while hooked into a boom with their arms locked out, as we've beaten to death. For those and many other reasons I've discussed before, I think it's counterproductive to advise a beginner or novice to adopt extremist, highly specialized techniques before he even knows what the sport is about or what he wants to do with it. I hope to hell that rtz is reading previous, often much longer, threads addressing his questions.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2273
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
You and I are reading very different things in the windsurfing literature, on both counts. What I've read in the magazines is this:
1. He retracted his advice to have his lines so long that even he can barely reach the boom at all.

2. He finally found that the new mast construction technologies all but eliminate the advantage of one-piece masts.

If that is good enough for the world's best (and thus pickiest) racers, we mortals -- especially novices and most recreational sailors in general -- REALLY don't benefit from them.

Besides, I base my own preferences on the many specific criteria -- clearly very different from his -- I've posted in previous line length threads. I see no way in hell that ANYONE could maneuver extensively while hooked into a boom with their arms locked out, as we've beaten to death. For those and many other reasons I've discussed before, I think it's counterproductive to advise a beginner or novice to adopt extremist, highly specialized techniques before he even knows what the sport is about or what he wants to do with it. I hope to hell that rtz is reading previous, often much longer, threads addressing his questions.


I'm not reading literature. Nevin is my neighbor. We see each other nearly every day in the summer and we've known each other well for nearly 30 years. I was sponsored by Fiberspar directly since 1992 until 2004. Therefore, I'm directly familiar with his thoughts as well as Fiberspar's, though I speak for neither.

Yes, it was the mast technology and specifically Fiberspar's development of a conical ferrule.

When we sail together, I see that he barely touches the boom unless he rolls his shoulders. That became my method as well, influenced greatly by his coaching. His lines are shorter than in his World Cup days, for sure, but the equipment has changed so much as I already wrote.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19020

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll betcha he doesn't sail that way in the waves or any other time he's not just blasting in straight lines. It leaves no room to maneuver the sail, and is a big part of the entire learning process, whether it's on the 15th day or the 2,353rd.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intermediate and up wave sailors don't maneuver in the harness. Most PWA guys run extremely long lines to keep the rig upright. +30" with a waist harness is common, +32" not unusual.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19020

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Discussed at much greater detail too many times to repeat.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed. People who sail in waves may do so in the harness. But wave sailors do not. The difference is not a subtle one.
Likewise almost any technique and equipment can work if optimum performance is not a priority.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19020

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Bendover



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobar's show video of isobars windsurfing. thankyo7.
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Sandman1221



Joined: 02 Oct 2016
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: 32" for 6' 190 lbs on 80 cm wide board Reply with quote

32" lines, neck/chin boom height, with a Dakine XT seat harnes (leg straps light) works perfect for me, can handle gusts and put lots of pressure on the fin.
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