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Foil Jibing - what is your preferred technique?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks' Coachg
I'm 160 lbs.
Can fly as long as the wind stays over around 10mph and can glide thru lower lulls. But slogging in the lulls is really hard..like around 2-5 mph breezes.
Day 18, never ever had a foiling session over an hour, most lasting less than 20 minutes. The wind either dies or comes up over 22 in the gusts, when I'm on 5.0, 85 liter board, and doing what I really like.
I fly too easily, so have moved straps forward, base just back from center, and foil 2" back from reco setting by using inner screw holes on the mounting plate.
Boom height at 52" same for my Skate and Firewave.
Plan to foil jibe within my next few sessions if the wind can stay light and somewhat steady. I can jibe any windsurf board as well as the best jibers so it should come...someday.
One major problem! Then what? I see Kevin maxed out on foiling, because of physical forces and breaking foils once the basics are achieved.
Wyatt can push limits, he's paid to do so.
Ty doesn't foil much.
I don't race.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, rear stab is always on my mind.
Presently, just a hair's width forcing the main foil down. Lift from rear stab.
Have used as much as fully 1.5 mm UP stab to keep from flying too quickly, but as I understand it, everyone says to add more DOWNforce to the rear wing.
Of course, I'm confused as it seems any setting can work for somebody.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that you, being on the lighter side, are not having the same epiphany towards foiling that bigger people have. I am enjoying foiling out of curiosity and as another branch of windsurfing. Others have found it to be their one true calling.

But to answer your question on what next? There could be endless possibilities for that based on what you like to do & where you sail. For me I added a 4.7 Lift sail so that now I will foil in wind over 14 mph but I still prefer to be on regular gear unless there is a freighter moored at the port of Lake Washington where I do most of my foiling. When there is a freighter you get the washboard effect that creates some of the worst voodoo chop I have ever sailed. In that situation the foil is sooooo much nicer.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endless possibilities.
Besides jibes and ducks, I see a dead end.
Jumping? Foil gear breaks.
I don't care about tacks, but can tack 85 liters.
360? Did them ws in 1985.
Up and down wind? I have F-167 and a slalom board get's me to Treaure Island in 37 minutes.
Water time for lighter winds? Foils don't work under 6 mph breezes and really need 12 just to get up. We NEVER get 6-12 without it dying suddenly or coming way up.
Foils are slow.
Foiling does allow one to have fun in 12-17 mph breezes, which we get 20 days a year.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't get proficient at foiling in less than 35 days.
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, geezzz...if you hate foiling so much don't do it.....

KMF
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the world only black or white?
I see many enamored with foiling.
Because I've never had balance all my life, I have the impression it takes balance to foil.
I've never been able to do a majority of intermediate yoga poses.
Always been scared of heights.
Climbing gym? Is that fun?
Worse yet, I still have not embraced the concept of the whole "lighter" wind concept. I just used to abstain.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Jumping? Foil gear breaks.

Have you seen any Balz Mueller movie lately?

dllee wrote:
360? Did them ws in 1985.

Big difference: the foil allows both upwind and downwind 360s fully on the foil. That looks a lot cooler, and according to people who can do them on the foil, also feels much cooler.

dllee wrote:
Water time for lighter winds? Foils don't work under 6 mph breezes and really need 12 just to get up.

The wind minimum depends a lot on skills. PWA foil races are held when there's not enough wind for slalom, which has an 8 knot minimum. Really good windfoilers can get up in less than 10 mph. But getting to that point takes skills and practice.
I'd actually agree that windfoiling does not extend the wind range for me - but that's because I like longboards and light wind freestyle, so I think a sunny 6 mph day is perfect. But for most other windsurfers, it can increase the number of "sailable" days by a lot. Here on Cape Cod, windfoiling is still just starting, but on a recent longboard day with wind from 5-20 mph, a foiler was on the water. Usually, I'd be alone on the water on such days. Having company is great.

dllee wrote:
Foils are slow.

Foils can go faster than 95% of all windsurfers will ever go. Amateurs in Australia post sessions with speeds in the high 20 and low 30 knot range on a regular basis.
But foils will be slow when you start foiling. Most guys used to power will start in 15 knots or more, and reach speeds of perhaps 13 knots. Slalom gear and even raceboards will go faster than the wind in these conditions.
But after the initial stages, it's your choice. If you like leasurely sessions with a small sail on a big foil, you'll remain slow. If you learn how to use more power on a foil, you'll be going faster than the wind in no time.

So far, windfoil design has mostly focused on "slow light wind" foiling. That makes perfect sense for anyone with a regular job at a not-so-windy location who can only sail on weekends, and for beginners. Over time, this will change. Kite foiling is a few years ahead on the curve. The fastest kite foiler has reached top speeds above 44 knots. That may still be slower than regular kites, but it's about twice as fast as most windsurfers go in a normal session, and a lot faster than most windsurfers will ever go.

For comparison, the windsurfing speed records in 1980 and 1981 were around 25 knots. The 30 knot barrier was broken by Fred Haywood in 1983, 40 knots in 1988. Nowadays, 50 knot postings happen on a pretty regular basis (although mostly for 2 second peaks, not the 500 m official record length). Windfoiling has just started to find a broader audience in the last couple of years, so I'd say it is comparable to where speedsurfing was in the early 80s. Speeds will go up - for those who want more speed.

I think the bigger change will come from windfoil freestyle, though. Foiled 360s are a logical step after the jibe, and perhaps even easier since you don't need to move the feet. Anyone who learned a downwind 360 probably remembers getting flattened when the sail got backwinded. On the foil, it's just a really small step to the Kaino (Switch Kono after carving to backwind - Balz shows one at 0:51 in the movie). I think it will help to replace the dreaded Vulcan with the Kaino/Switch Kono as the first "New School" trick over time. Not only does it seem easier, but it has a very logical progression, with lots of intermediate milestones. Although the windfoilers going for foil Kainos may need to be young enough to still have the "nothing will happen to me" attitude.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fully entranced by foiling, are we?
I'm the 5% in windsurfing, sail the 2nd lightest windsurfing area near SF, and have been at it since 1983.
Foil is great to sell new gear.
Foil does enhance light wind fun, but mostly for those who never where able to plane in light winds.
How many current foilers actually owned 80+ cm wide boards, 8 meter sails, and EMBRACED the idea that tuning can add as much as 3 mph early planing from their nornal tyning ideas of max downhaul for stability in higher winds. When they're actually sailing LIGHTER winds?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm a skeptic.
I didn't believe in RichMillers twin foils.
I thought the superbent mast concept was stupid.
I was on Starboard's hate list by saying the Hypersonic would have been much better with less concaves.
I'm 50/50 about foiling. Great for big sailors, ok for small sailors. I'm 160 lbs.
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