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Infinity 76 wing first thoughts
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
What FS board? That's the direction I'm looking to go at the moment. Except with a set of tracks installed along with the PB.

The board is a 2011 Skate 110. There's a little problem with replacing the powerbox with a foil box on it: the straps are further forward than on the slalom board I used (and also compared to many formula and foil boards). I tried it with the Infinity 84 yesterday, and it did not foil up well - much worse than with a Powerplate. The Powerplate moved the foil forward by a few inches, which made all the difference. I used the C position with both.

Different boards will have different strap positions. Check before replacing the box! The current setup should work a bit better with the i76, since it is a bit more forward than the i84 (usually requiring the B position, vs. C for the i84).

I plan to drill another hole into the fuselage today to move the front wing forward 2 inches from the C position. Together with moving the front straps back, that should improve things, and may work well enough.

I briefly thought about a set of tracks, too. But the only things I found were surfboard tracks without any reinforcement, and the Ride Engine foil track box that quite large (30 x 15 x 6 cm). I would not trust the surfboard tracks, and installing the foil track box would require more routing that I'd want to do. There's be a bit of extra weight gain, too, although probably less than when using a Powerplate with a tuttle adapter (the fallback option for the Skate 110).
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4591
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice Balz has to run his mastrack WAAAY back on his convert foil/freestyle board,
COE of the front wing needs to be directly between the footstraps,
Possibly except for fuselage over 115cm.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking for a Skate 110 to install that exact Ride Engine track into. I currently use a 122 Kombat with a shallow tuttle but it's not a fantastic performer without the foil, slow to plane etc.

However I'm thinking I might just pull the trigger on the MB wildcat which is supposed to be fairly universal. Although the lack of width does give me pause, I'm not the greatest uphauler.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4591
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We both have the 110 Skate.
Bought when I weighed 171 lbs., now 154.
Don't think any 66cm board really planes a whole lot different than any other. I have at least 5 boards around that width, and winspeed/sail choice makes the bigger difference,
For me, flat deck at jibe area is crucial to foiling jibes,so my Speedster, Isonic, Futura, X-cite, and SSport makes better candidates for foiling.
That's just me. How much FREESTYLE are you doing?
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just getting into freestyle but it's the direction I'm heading for both fin and foil sailing. Starting with oldschool carving moves which the Skate and MB are supposed to perform well at, also laying the ground work for loops.
A few locals run larger FS boards in our costal wind swell until it picks up enough to grab a smaller wave or FSW board.

My current foil board has a domed deck and honestly I don't find it an issue. My specific personal situation requires a compact board which covers a very wide range of conditions, rather than a whole van full of specialist ones.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did get to foil the Skate with the mast in the "D" position (using the rear hole of C and a new hole 2 inches further back) yesterday, and I was amazed how different it felt. The push now is under both feet, and there's a lot more lift. That's just a first impression, though, since it was rather windy - enough to plane on the 5.6 that I also used to test the foil. Still, the entire setup now felt balanced. I got it to foil before in the C position when the wind was stronger, but it felt quite unbalanced, requiring lots of weight on the back foot.
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fathomfathom



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I foil on a custom board (similar to Slingshot 105, 6ft, 31 inch wide ,105L) with the Slingshot 76. Sails 3.4 to 5.7 with the same set up 12-25+ knots.
No straps.
Both flat water and wave riding and downwinders (sail flagged out).
Position C works well for me (although B likely will work just as well).
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jmblaney



Joined: 07 May 1998
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of all the adjustments mentioned in this thread, nobody mentioned the importance of your sail. An experienced foiler can make almost anything work, but for a beginner to intermediate your sail will definitely matter. I started foiling at Coyote in July 2017 with Naish Boxers, my favorite sails for years. It took a couple months of mostly uncontrolled up/down flight, breaches, and other crashes to understand that those sails were terrible for foiling - even worse than other free ride/freesyle sails. Why? Mast base pressure varies constantly as they sheet in/out or in gusts, even though their fore/aft draft stability is very good. Sailworks Flyers became available at the end of that season and made a huge difference. Other successful foilers were on cambered slalom or race sails, which also maintain stable mast base pressure - they are just much heavier than necessary. I've since successfully foiled on Wave sails at Wyatt/Tyson's place in La Ventana, but the Flyers are easier. Ezzy's bizarre Hydra sail is also outstanding - I sail the Hydra 4.0 in 18+ and have been fine in 25-30 on it with the Infinity 76 on a JP135 or Wizard 105. I sail Flyer 4.5 - 6.0 in other conditions.

Re: footstraps and downwind sailing. Totally unnecessary when foiling or even subfoiling (Coyote chop is as confused and wicked as anything I've seen at the Gorge or elsewhere), as you are not bouncing and don't need them to hang on. Also much safer in case you breach. (Breaches are not subtle - you will know when it happens!). I learned for my first 18 months w/o any rear straps and now use them only for close reaching and pointing, and even then only when not over-powered. You don't need them to point high, only to point high and fast.

Slogging upwind on a foil board is different than a windsurf board IF your board is big enough. The foil acts as a keel. That plus the width of the board makes it possible to stand on the board and scull the sail: one hand on the mast or at least close to it, the other on the boom, you gently scull the sail like a paddle. This works well on my JP135, but is much harder on my Wizard 105 (I'm 150 lbs and can uphill the 105 pretty easily). I've been able to scull back from the GG N. Tower when the kiters were being rescued by the CG and windsurfers on big boards and sails were swimming.

Learning foiling in typical Coyote conditions (> 20 knots, sloppy, confused chop plus medium swell) was incredibly difficult, even once I had the Flyer sails. A week in the smooth water and light wind of Bonair helped enormously. 12-15 knots of wind, smooth water, and a big enough board to easily uphaul will make it much easier. Would that, plus a lightweight foiling sail 2 meters smaller than what you'd windsurf make uphauling possible for you?

Isobars, I gather it's been tough to find such places in the Gorge. I suggest focusing on only trying foiling in those conditions if and when you find them rather than continuing to struggle in crazy stuff. A couple weeks at La Ventana this winter helped me improve a lot. It's harder than Bonaire, but way easier than SF Bay.

As I'm finally getting comfortable foiling in 20-25 knots of wind (Coyote, Olympic Circle), and sailing tolerably in 30 knot gusts, I can assure you I'm in no danger of being bored. As others wrote, I'm not going 25 knots on the Infinity 76. My typical GPS speed is 14-16 mph, with max about 18 so far. Foiling at those speeds is exciting even in light wind - gliding down swells is a blast. The other huge appeal of foiling is flying over the chop without being beaten up by it. I hope you get to try this.

I agree that 9-100cm masts make it easier to learn and progress, as you've got more room before foiling out (breaching), especially if you're in chop. I don't see any point to short masts unless you're in a location with extremely shallow gradient to enter the water and very flat water with < 15 knots of wind.

Good luck,
Jeff
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fathomfathom



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Jeff.
Easier to learn on stable foil specific sails and 76 in flat.
I would suggest you try the boxer again but with min downhaul and tons of outhaul (easier to pump yet easier to flag out and go upwind once flying), one sail size smaller than what you're using for foiling normally when in big swell.
Agree with no straps in those Coyotte & swell conditions.
Pump up to fly, don't aim for high speed, enjoy the swell ride, much easier with a smaller sail flagged out.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmblaney wrote:
... those sails were terrible for foiling - even worse than other free ride/freesyle sails. Why? Mast base pressure varies constantly as they sheet in/out or in gusts, even though their fore/aft draft stability is very good.

I have found that my windsurfing sails with good fore/aft stability don't work well on the foil, while sails where the COE moves around more work much better. That applies when barely powered and when overpowered on the foil. One exception are my freestyle sails (older North Idols), which I always regarded as surprisingly stable; they are nice for foiling. All those sails are camless.

Perhaps the stable sails are very good in transmitting power changes directly to the mast base - great when windsurfing, bad when foiling. For less stable sails, the COE will move back in a gust. That puts more power to the back of the board, and counteracts increased mast foot pressure.

Sails with tighter leeches also seem to work better for foiling. The tighter leech moves the COE up, similar to the high COE of freestyle sails like the Idols. It would seem that this also affects mast base pressure in gusts and lulls less.
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