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Old sail material too stretched for stronger outhaul?
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:15 pm    Post subject: Old sail material too stretched for stronger outhaul? Reply with quote

I have an old NP 6.2 Garda sail, made of light Dacron, I believe. It is fine in light winds around 12 knts , however in stronger winds there is no way I can flatten it adequately. Even with the strongest possible outhaul, it still retains a deep shape that makes it heavy and sort of difficult to handle in stronger winds...
I begin to wonder if this is due to natural overstretching with time..

Thanks

Ittiandro
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5105
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garda was NP's cheap sail, for beginners, and a 6.2 was meant for less than 15 mph breeze.
Kinda like buying a Skoda and expecting it to be competitive in F-1
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10157

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more about a sail being too old. Old relics like your NP Garda just aren't as tunable, and they clearly lack the range of modern sail designs.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5105
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sailed my 1994 Gaastra CS Pro against my normal buds on Isonics, Airinsides, Volar, Turbos....I was on 2003 Exocet Speed Slider, and our relative speeds the same, although my sail was at least 20-26 years older.
Garda was a cheap junk sail.
I don't think ANYONE close to my weight...72 kg, has or can stay near my speeds, even given 2021 gear. I am 72 years old and walk like a cripple.
Past 5 foiling days, I have been using 1996 North Zeta and Converts. Works great.
Most gear newer than 1995 is competitive with the newest gear.
Crap cheap gear will always be crappy.
Good gear, 1994 or 2020 [my new stuff], will always be good.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20355

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sail's best use is 1) for foiling or 2) as a rigging tarp for a newer, better sail. People literally give away the latter ... up to a point, of course.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Garda was NP's cheap sail, for beginners, and a 6.2 was meant for less than 15 mph breeze.
Kinda like buying a Skoda and expecting it to be competitive in F-1


Dlee

I love your Skoda comparison! You have a good sense of humour !

I am older than you and I was sure that we are not chronologically too far apart, because only oldtimers like me and you know about Skodas, especially if Europeans and( may be) Czechs...

I once had a Skoda long ago in Europe in my younger days..Not bad the Skodas, though..: we were able to drive one from Italy to the border of Turkey and Iran( and back!), all the way through the former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey, at the time when when the roads meant at times raging torrents, shared by humans, cattle and flocks of sheep, not too different from what must have been the Oregon Trail in the epic days of the first American settlers..

I think you are right. The Garda might well be a ..Skoda. It certainly feels heavy, although not..bullet-proof...The Skoda were built for the... security of the Soviet intelligentsia and they needed one.

Ittiandro
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5105
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet I still like my Hot Superfreak 4.5. Single ply dacron.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20355

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with dacron. I chose it for the main body of my last quiver of Northwaves because of its advantages over scrim.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1126

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a matching mast? Downhaul looks good?
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
With a matching mast? Downhaul looks good?


Matching mast? I guess so. It is a standard 460 cm C.C,25 IMCS, 65% carbon mast but I am not into the subtleties of more precise matching, like matching exactly sail and mast according to the manufacturers recommendations for peak performance, as required by racing or expert use.

Downhaul looks good too, but the Garda is an oldie and because of its paneled design( as somebody has pointed out) downhaul may require different criteria or give different results from a "modern" sail. In fact, as reported, the Garda always keeps a considerable shape, in spite of a stringer outhaul tension.
It may be because of its paneled seamed design, as somebody has pointed out, but also, I think, because it may have stretched with time and be a bit spent...

Ittiandro
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