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230 lbs. sail size to plane
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2507
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also true, early planning is costly on a windsurfer. My Retro 9.5 rigs on a
490 and the OP has a 490 however, I'm not that familiar with Ezzy.
But, I think a big guy has to have a carbon boom with a big sail, or
you get really poor performance (even as a low intermediate) and that's
not cheap (Think like $700 or $800). You can probably find a large used fin
relatively cheap, but a new one will be about 2 bills, and you need a
Tuttle box board to use it. At the OP's weight,
I would definitely get a 9.5, but it's control will be awful (even for a low
intermediate) without a carbon boom. At the OPs stated wind range
2 knots is like 40% of it. Where my big gear is (in Utah), it's very useful,
because we get a lot of 12-15 MPH winds (10.5-13 Knots). Expensive,
you bet, and worth every penny if you want to windsurf in that range.

-Craig

p.s. my residence in the Gorge was a lot more expensive, but I don't
need that gear there. ;*)

dhmark wrote:
520 mast, 10+meter sail, carbon boom, very costly setup for maybe 2 knots gain. More than what a foil cost. Get the foil, learn the new thing.
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Drake_el_sailor



Joined: 15 Jun 2021
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GameChanger, okay guys don’t hate on me to much for this, only been in this area a year and don’t live here in Florida. Current wind speed is 24 mph. My apologizes on wind range. Btw, was very interested in the RRD firemove . So expensive, wanted opinions before I committed on it. Again, sorry for the wind range, it actually varies here anywhere from 10-25 mph. Big range
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10310

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where you go from here kind of depends on your ability to easily waterstart in all conditions. Smaller boards and bigger sails can be handful if your skills are weak. What RRD Firemove size do lust for? 120,135 or 155 liters?

Considering your size, I would up the fin sizes from what they're selling with the boards. With your existing sails, I would recommend a minimum 50cm for the 135 and 155.
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Drake_el_sailor



Joined: 15 Jun 2021
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torn between the 135 and 155, but yes definitely one of the two sizes. I’m a little unsure about the 135, more confident the 155 would float more, and more stable. Unless someone has good reason i should choose the 135 think 155 would be the safe route. Thanks again
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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Location: FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on what you want to do when it gets windy. 155 as your smallest board is not small. At 50 liters over your body weight in kg, that is not a high wind board for you. 155 will carry 8.5 and 7.3, 135 will only carry 7.3.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2507
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd get the 155, it's wider and longer, but It's maximum recommended Sail
is a 9.0. If you are a tall 230, you might want something a little longer
than a Firemove.

-Craig

p.s. I hear a lot of good things about Firemoves, but they seem to demand
pretty good technique.


Drake_el_sailor wrote:
Torn between the 135 and 155, but yes definitely one of the two sizes. I’m a little unsure about the 135, more confident the 155 would float more, and more stable. Unless someone has good reason i should choose the 135 think 155 would be the safe route. Thanks again
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3369

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for the late reply.

i am 210 lbs and live in florida.

there is no substitution for larger sails in our weight class.

on 10 to 20 kind of days i use a 9.0 it's my most used sail. my 7.5 is a close second.

if your time is as valuable as any, spend the bucks and get the 11. should pair up nicely with the big board you already have. if i was 230 lbs, i would have at least an 11, maybe larger.

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ozzimark



Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to make a counter-argument to the general sentiment of "bigger than 9.5 is a waste". It feels like a misconception to me, and that the true upper end of the useful sail size is going to be directly proportional to the weight of the sailor who is holding the sail down. For the average sailor, that's probably about right. Lighter sailors won't want to touch a 9.5 at all, and heavier sailors are going to be quite underwhelmed by the performance by comparison.

I don't see any reason to believe the Lift-Drag ratio of a sail is going to get dramatically worse with larger sizes. Yes, drag does go up, and so does the driving force! Proof in this is the lighter sailors who don't see much of an improvement in a broad reach, but can make better angles with the massive sails. That wouldn't happen with a disproportionate increase in drag!

I'm 75kg, and can clearly feel the difference from 6.6 to 7.8, and then from 7.8 to 9.5, both about 20% jumps in sail area.

Of course someone who is 100kg will want about 33% more sail area in the same conditions, as they've got about 33% more drag in the water from their extra body weight, and 33% more holding power on the sail. That changes the 6.6->7.8->9.5 progression I mentioned to 8.8->10.5->12.5.

Similarly, for uphauling, picking up a big heavy sail will be more and more challenging the for lighter and lighter sailors, contributing to the feeling of "man, it's pointless using a bigger sail, I can't even get it out of the water!". The heavier sailors will be able to do this with relative ease by virtue of more counter-weight and (usually) more strength!

My vote as someone who sails in light-wind conditions a lot: Get the big sail.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17044
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drake—you’ve gotten a lot of somewhat conflicting advice, so I’ll try to pull some of it together. I’m 6’2” and weigh 210; I raced for about twenty years, windsurfed for 42, and sail in San Francisco Bay.

The right equipment varies with your skill level and weight. Chandler is right about carbon booms—they’re superior at every stage of learning and last far longer. Lighter, stronger, stiffer. You also need a larger fin for a larger sail, unless you are on a foil.

Flotation is critical at my weight, and more so at yours. If more of your board is in, or under the water, it is harder to balance, tack, and more drag to overcome to get on a plane or foil. For windfoiling on a racing foil, I’m on a 163 liter board, and I need that flotation for tacking. So you’d need more than 135 liters unless you’re on a wide slalom board with not too heavy a sail.

Bigger sails matter once you’ve mastered the basic skills, not before. In my formula days, my smallest sail was a 9.0, and I often sailed and raced on 10’s and 11’s. They are harder in transitions, and harder to pick up out of the water. Also consider that much of the advice here is from folks under 200 pounds, and size matters. On a foil, my sails are basically 7, 8, and 9, with a 6.2 for crazy windy days.

Foiling is good advice, but even more confusing. I learned to foil on an early race foil and struggled for at least two years. Designs are much better now, but it is still more difficult to learn than standard windsurfing. My strongest possible advice is to take at least one lesson with an outfit that has plenty of equipment. Slower foils with wide wings are easier to learn on, and taking a few lessons is better than spending money on equipment based on our advice.

Good luck. I’m still doing this at 72, and have 160 days so far this year.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3369

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP typed this:

My current board is Kona Hula 264L

i have sailed this board. it planes well, and comes with a fin large enough for big sails. it's another life long boar design, just like the kona one.

thanks mac and ozzie for your further inputs.

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www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
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