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mast base position
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exgolfer



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: mast base position...foiling Reply with quote

agree with much of the above re regular WSing, but with windsurf foiling, the mast base position seems to be something to actively tweak even for each session as the last step to get finely balanced. the Slingshot and Sailworks folks, for their products and others, have recommendations for the starting point on rear stabilizer shim and movable foil mast track positions, if applicable. They also have the the starting sail mast foot position in terms of distance from mast center bolt to the font of the foil mast, or foil mast for tuttle bolt for various foils, boards and applications. Once the foil mast track and rear stabilizer shim are dialed in, and foot straps are dialed in, for rider ability, weight, preference and feel, they don't need seem to need much tweaking, except perhaps on sailor improvement. But the sail mast foot position can be adjusted for front wing size and sail size as it varies from session to session. I use two front wings, one for low teens and one for everything else. By speaking with experienced slingshot folks, for their products, and the SailWorks folks at their loft for the sail, board and foil combinations I bought from them, I saved a ton of time, and frustration, by starting with positions that they know works well, from a ton of experience, and then tweaking the mast foot position for my weight and stance.....For me, whether I complete jibes fully on foil or breach the foil when fully powered are the two key indicators (canaries in the coal mine) of how well balanced things are...so after a couple reaches I adjust. I have also begun to mark spots on the board for the mast base by front wing/sail size combos.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5329
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a freeride windsurfer, so I set up my foil gear exactly the same.
With Naish, I can tweak foil placement a stab downthrust.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5329
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And foil setup seems almost the same as windsurf, for sail mast placement.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another thing to note.
is the bow wake of the board splashing you in the face in chop? too forward. or, does the board wash the fin out? too forward.

board wheelies in gusts? too back. slow to plane? too back.

rocker, planform and lots of design attributes, AND fin choices makes this topic noteworthy.

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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d suggest relying on the sailors here with more experience than me, but I’ll mention how and why I make slight adjustments to my mast base position.

Once I have chosen my board, selected and rigged my sail, selected my fin, and adjusted my harness lines to what I feel is the ideal balance point after a few runs. I then start to notice if I feel like I want to weight myself further forward or back on the board. Most of the time, everything just feels balanced. But, sometimes I constantly feel like leaning my weight slightly in the harness to have less/more downward pressure further up the board. When I feel that, I occasionally will come in and slide the mast base back/forward a touch. Then, I feel balanced in the sling again. Quite honestly, I don’t know if that happens with higher chop, current, or wind … but I feel it. Also, not sure if my adjustment adds or subtracts speed, but it sure feels better. I should mention, I do this mostly for when I want to cover some long distances.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
another thing to note.
is the bow wake of the board splashing you in the face in chop? too forward. or, does the board wash the fin out? too forward.

board wheelies in gusts? too back. slow to plane? too back.

rocker, planform and lots of design attributes, AND fin choices makes this topic noteworthy.


Good explanation

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a conversation about this with Peter Thommen (board designer for F2 and others) who said that for any given sailor on any given board, there was only 2-3 cm of available positioning that would deliver peak performance over the board's sail range, and that the overall mast track length on boards was not something that any one sailor should use. So once you find a position that gives you great performance, mark it. Then in your future experiments with other sails keep it within 2-3 cm of that spot...you'll find the sweet zone.
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wsatl



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I came in after a day of foiling and someone said "It looks like magic." My reply was, just like magic, it's a matter of knowing where to stand.

When I started to learn to foil, I left the back footstraps off completely until I figured out how not to die, and where my foot was when I was in balance. Then I put in the footstraps. I still don't use a chicken strap or the rear strap coming downwind. Again, the magic is finding the balance point. It depends on three things: mast base position, foot strap position, sail size. Bigger sails need to go back a bit on some boards because otherwise you weight the nose. Same with footstrap position. Further forward keeps the nose down until you are going faster. You have to experiment--but a half inch is a big adjustment.


Add boom height to your list. Moving the boom up/down an inch can have similar effects to moving the mast base back/forward. Some people let the tail wag the dog by setting the boom height to where they can get in and out of the harness.

The small changes foiling requires to wire in a position is probably its biggest drawback. Even if the foil/board maker gets it roughly correct, little nuances like sail trim/type, boom height and riding style will still mean adjustments need to be made.
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