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Afghanistan falls
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8731
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. G I'd advise you watch the Netflix Documentary on 9/11. It gives you all the information on Afghanistan you need . Context and history are very important here. Of course the exit from Afghanistan was sub-optimal, many here have admitted that, but it's quite important to understand the long term set-up. Leaving a residual force would just extend the timeline and not change the flow of events too dramatically, so I'm in Ann Coulter's camp ..
In 2001, the Allied Forces were hell bent on removing the Taliban. We did that. In the 1980's we did everything we could to help those that would become the Taliban defeat the Russians, we did that.
In April of 2020, we shook hands with the Taliban and committed to a withdrawal date of May 1st 2021.
Most Generals would always suggest leaving a residual force in place, but I think in the long term it would be a mistake, just as the war was, and the Iraq war. We spent TRILLIONS, with a T on these mistakes, so leaving behind Billions of dollars of gear is a drop in the bucket for these mistakes.

I have a question(or two) for you. The previous president blames George Dubya Bush for 9/11, do you share his opinion? He also has stated that Iraq was a colossal mistake, and I certainly agree with him ...do you agree there as well?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3124

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
I must be a partisan hack.


Not must be; you are a partisan hack. You have selective outrage but get upset with others who do the same. I guess that also makes you a hypocrite.

Coachg
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16733
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bin Laden had written plenty about drawing the US into a guerrilla war that would hurt us economically. But of course Bush cancelled the briefings.

Quote:
CNN) -- The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.

Al-Jazeera aired portions of the videotape Friday but released the full transcript of the entire tape on its Web site Monday.

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."

"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."

His invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have now cost an estimated:

Quote:
A new report from the Brown University Costs of War Project estimates that US taxpayers have paid an average of $8,000 each and over $2 trillion total for the Iraq war alone. (February 2020)


and $2.3 trillion for the Afghanistan war. Medical costs for wounded soldiers will go on for another 50 years and will be of the same magnitude. https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2021/Costs%20of%20War_Bilmes_Long-Term%20Costs%20of%20Care%20for%20Vets_Aug%202021.pdf

We took the bait. It cost us not just treasure--at least twice the cost of repairing our infrastructure and starting to deal with climate change--but our stature in the world. The entire world has now seen that the US can be drawn into, and lose, asymmetric wars in foreign countries. Nice move shrub.[/quote]
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2104

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/29/frank-mckenzie-doha-agreement-trump-taliban

The collapse of the Afghan government and its security forces can be traced to a 2020 agreement between the Taliban and the Trump administration that promised a complete US troop withdrawal, senior Pentagon officials have told Congress.

Gen Frank McKenzie, the head of central command, told the House armed services committee that once the US troop presence was pushed below 2,500 as part of President Joe Biden’s decision in April to complete a total withdrawal by September, the unraveling of the US-backed Afghan government accelerated.

“The signing of the Doha agreement had a really pernicious effect on the government of Afghanistan and on its military, psychological more than anything else, but we set a date – certain for when we were going to leave and when they could expect all assistance to end,” McKenzie said.

He was referring to a 29 February 2020, agreement that the Trump administration signed with the Taliban in Doha, Qatar, in which the US promised to fully withdraw its troops by May 2021 and the Taliban committed to several conditions, including stopping attacks on American and coalition forces.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10155

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Biden used a record number of executive actions to overturn a raft of Trump policies. Did his pen run out of ink before he could overturn this agreement?"


Do you actually think that signing a number executive actions that pertain to national issues is the same as unilaterally changing international agreements made with foreign governments? I guess if you have a Donald Trump mindset about things anything is possible, right?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16733
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
"Biden used a record number of executive actions to overturn a raft of Trump policies. Did his pen run out of ink before he could overturn this agreement?"


Do you actually think that signing a number executive actions that pertain to national issues is the same as unilaterally changing international agreements made with foreign governments? I guess if you have a Donald Trump mindset about things anything is possible, right?


Trump issued 220 Executive Orders in only 4 years. Obama issued 276 EO's in 8 years. Of course many of Trump's EO's benefited oil and chemical companies. You can hear the gnashing of teeth as the oil companies efforts to avoid accountability are reversed.
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gilbertdddw



Joined: 08 Nov 2021
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, in my opinion, you are touching on some very heavy topics.
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