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Candlestick Update: only bad news.
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tomg



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DvCalli: Why am I having flashes of Treasure Island when I see that rendering? It looks like they plan to have a nice little pocket beach for owners of all those shiny new apartments.. when they are done and real estate banners blow away... (sign on 101: If you lived here you'd be sailing now"?)

As with TI, we should demand access to the water during all phases of these giant development projects. They are not building over the water, so why not let the public use the beach in the decades it will take to build out this new Shangrila?
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
...I so hope that Candlestick is just one of several good accesses to The Bay and The Bridge, not the uniquely superior marvel we've long envisioned from afar, wind shadow aside.

Unfortunately Candlestick is only the last of a series of blows to water access.

For the west Bay it started long ago with Sierra Point, obliterated by Genentech skyscrapers, Coyote has been seriously compromised by the new Facebook buildings, Treasure Island was a net gain after the military base closed, but it is now basically unreacheable from the city due to traffic (and who knows what will happen with the development there). Stick is pretty much gone unless the State Park is re-opened properly.

Only one site left, the iconic Crissy Field, or you can go to 3rd Ave (a 60' drive from SF) or Larkspur (45') or the east Bay (unpredictable how long it would take).
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nm

Last edited by dvCali on Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1425
Location: Maui

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Even as a WSer who has never sailed the Bay (I've been to Candlestick only once), this whole Stick thing is an emotional blow. Again to us strangers, Candlestick is the most iconic launch on the Bay. To see it devolving from what I saw there in the '80s -- dozens of WSers even on a borderline day on a sandy beach -- to what you depict now is devastating even from Hood River. It's almost as though they closed the Gorge due to politicians not giving a crap.

I've always appreciated you locals' opportunity to put in a full day's work, then brave rush hour traffic to put in a few hours of sailing, sleep be damned. Many of my eastern WA locals very often do the same thing, with the primary difference being that their 60 to 90 minute one-way drive is at 70 mph on cruise control. I so hope that Candlestick is just one of several good accesses to The Bay and The Bridge, not the uniquely superior marvel we've long envisioned from afar, wind shadow aside.


Big difference between the Gorge and San Francisco Bay. First time I went to the Gorge I was amazed to see the highway signs (official) included an image of a windsurfer to let you know where the launches are. They know that recreation is a cash cow and they foster it. Contrast that to California where you know the launches by word of mouth, have to deal with tolls and closures, and the launches are useable only due to the efforts of the windsurfing community, cleaning up broken glass, needles, submerged shopping carts and trash left over by fishermen. Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderful launches there, the community is welcoming and the scenery can be spectacular. Now with what's going on at Treasure Island and Candlestick, it just seems like the powers that be could care less about us lowly windsurfers.

Steve
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jse wrote:
isobars wrote:
Even as a WSer who has never sailed the Bay (I've been to Candlestick only once), this whole Stick thing is an emotional blow. Again to us strangers, Candlestick is the most iconic launch on the Bay. To see it devolving from what I saw there in the '80s -- dozens of WSers even on a borderline day on a sandy beach -- to what you depict now is devastating even from Hood River. It's almost as though they closed the Gorge due to politicians not giving a crap.

I've always appreciated you locals' opportunity to put in a full day's work, then brave rush hour traffic to put in a few hours of sailing, sleep be damned. Many of my eastern WA locals very often do the same thing, with the primary difference being that their 60 to 90 minute one-way drive is at 70 mph on cruise control. I so hope that Candlestick is just one of several good accesses to The Bay and The Bridge, not the uniquely superior marvel we've long envisioned from afar, wind shadow aside.


Big difference between the Gorge and San Francisco Bay. First time I went to the Gorge I was amazed to see the highway signs (official) included an image of a windsurfer to let you know where the launches are. They know that recreation is a cash cow and they foster it. Contrast that to California where you know the launches by word of mouth, have to deal with tolls and closures, and the launches are useable only due to the efforts of the windsurfing community, cleaning up broken glass, needles, submerged shopping carts and trash left over by fishermen. Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderful launches there, the community is welcoming and the scenery can be spectacular. Now with what's going on at Treasure Island and Candlestick, it just seems like the powers that be could care less about us lowly windsurfers.

Steve

Not to go on a soapbox, but I think I am blaming corporations and developers. Genentech, Facebook, Lennar and Kenwood Investments (T.I.), Emile Haddad/Five Points (Candelstick). They are responsible for greed-based development, and the destruction that goes with all these money-making machines. Windsurfing beach access is just a tiny side casualty. Looking back, the fact that Crissy and the Presidio survived the developers pressure was a real miracle.
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Goodwind



Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 305
Location: On water

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite all the problems, we are still here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-naEYvLddw
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17238
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't sailed Candlestick in over 20 years. But I did work to try to preserve access to the water, as a Board Member of the San Francisco Boardsailing Association, for over 20 years. https://www.sfba.org/

A couple of things to think about. First, we are only as strong as we are well organized. There is new leadership at SFBA, Andrew Sullivan and David Wells are now leading the effort, and I have every bit of confidence in them to remake the organization to be stronger and more effective than ever. They need help, and have started to work on the issues at Candlestick--but can always use help. You don't have to join the Board, you can be a site steward, or someone who helps write letters.

Second, it is hard to compel public agencies to keep access points open if their budgets are cut. I know that State Parks went through a planning process to develop the new plan for Candlestick, and installed a number of improvements for water access. But if they can't get the budget to have staff work after 4, or 5, there's not much we can do to compel them to do what the legislature won't give them the money to do. The solution for that is to find allies in the legislature that support access to the water, and lobby them to provide earmarked funds. Public agencies are not required specifically to provide access--it depends on their legislative authorization. That's different than development deals, where the permitting agencies exact public access concessions in exchange for authorizing development. There, the access rights can be enforced. So the battle at Treasure Island is very different than that at Candlestick. San Francisco promised access to the shoreline, and got a permit in exchange for that. I think we will eventually force them to honor their commitments, although it may be a struggle. For Candlestick, it would pay to have a San Francisco Board of Supervisor member and a legislator putting pressure on the organization--and coughing up operating funds. A starting point might be the original legislation that authorized a park, and see if there are any lever points. Here's the link: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=200920100SB792

Finally, I urge you all to join SFBA. I've served my time, and I am no longer on the Board. But I'll help on fights to keep access as long as I can. Get involved, get to know your legislator, and let him or her know it matters to you.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I haven't sailed Candlestick in over 20 years. But I did work to try to preserve access to the water, as a Board Member of the San Francisco Boardsailing Association, for over 20 years. https://www.sfba.org/

A couple of things to think about. First, we are only as strong as we are well organized. There is new leadership at SFBA, Andrew Sullivan and David Wells are now leading the effort, and I have every bit of confidence in them to remake the organization to be stronger and more effective than ever. They need help, and have started to work on the issues at Candlestick--but can always use help. You don't have to join the Board, you can be a site steward, or someone who helps write letters.

Second, it is hard to compel public agencies to keep access points open if their budgets are cut. I know that State Parks went through a planning process to develop the new plan for Candlestick, and installed a number of improvements for water access. But if they can't get the budget to have staff work after 4, or 5, there's not much we can do to compel them to do what the legislature won't give them the money to do. The solution for that is to find allies in the legislature that support access to the water, and lobby them to provide earmarked funds. Public agencies are not required specifically to provide access--it depends on their legislative authorization. That's different than development deals, where the permitting agencies exact public access concessions in exchange for authorizing development. There, the access rights can be enforced. So the battle at Treasure Island is very different than that at Candlestick. San Francisco promised access to the shoreline, and got a permit in exchange for that. I think we will eventually force them to honor their commitments, although it may be a struggle. For Candlestick, it would pay to have a San Francisco Board of Supervisor member and a legislator putting pressure on the organization--and coughing up operating funds. A starting point might be the original legislation that authorized a park, and see if there are any lever points. Here's the link: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=200920100SB792

Finally, I urge you all to join SFBA. I've served my time, and I am no longer on the Board. But I'll help on fights to keep access as long as I can. Get involved, get to know your legislator, and let him or her know it matters to you.


Hi Mac, the problem at the Stick is not so much the Park, nobody parked in the Park for years, but the closure of Hunters Point Expressway. And that is under the jurisdiction of the city, which means that one could put pressure directly on the board of supervisors and the mayor office.

For Candlestick park, according to a ranger I talked with there are 4 positions already budgeted for personnel, but nobody takes them because the pay is too low to live in the area. The park, and especially its surroundings, are in pretty dire conditions, although pits and camping spots (!) are maintained.


Last edited by dvCali on Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1425
Location: Maui

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
A couple of things to think about. First, we are only as strong as we are well organized. There is new leadership at SFBA, Andrew Sullivan and David Wells are now leading the effort, and I have every bit of confidence in them to remake the organization to be stronger and more effective than ever. They need help, and have started to work on the issues at Candlestick--but can always use help. You don't have to join the Board, you can be a site steward, or someone who helps write letters.

...

Finally, I urge you all to join SFBA. I've served my time, and I am no longer on the Board. But I'll help on fights to keep access as long as I can. Get involved, get to know your legislator, and let him or her know it matters to you.


Although I don't live in the Bay Area anymore it is a place that is dear to my heart. I hope something good comes of this and progress can be made. Just a glance at the forum topics is telling...

Steve



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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17238
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we be fighting for access!
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