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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9118
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was 0% m/m ISO, still growing 8% annualized....is that so hard to understand?
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14838
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtg
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
In other news….this same poster called me a “fear mongerer” because I suggested we take COVID seriously. We just recently passed the 1 million death number.

CB, When Biden moved into the WH, 400,000 had died from/with Covid in the prior year when the whole world was caught off balance and was scrambling for effective treatments, protocols and vaccines. You were relentless in your condemnation of the Trump Administration's response, as were others here. Biden came into office with the benefit of an array of effective vaccines, hugely improved knowledge of optimal treatments, and a widespread acceptance of preventative protocols. Despite these major advances, 600,000 have died in his first 18 months.......the same rate as the first chaotic year. Given your demonstrated passion for this topic, I'm trying to understand why you and other Trump critics here have been silent about the Biden Administration's performance
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2343

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can lead a horse to water...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
In other news….this same poster called me a “fear mongerer” because I suggested we take COVID seriously. We just recently passed the 1 million death number.

CB, When Biden moved into the WH, 400,000 had died from/with Covid in the prior year when the whole world was caught off balance and was scrambling for effective treatments, protocols and vaccines. You were relentless in your condemnation of the Trump Administration's response, as were others here. Biden came into office with the benefit of an array of effective vaccines, hugely improved knowledge of optimal treatments, and a widespread acceptance of preventative protocols. Despite these major advances, 600,000 have died in his first 18 months.......the same rate as the first chaotic year. Given your demonstrated passion for this topic, I'm trying to understand why you and other Trump critics here have been silent about the Biden Administration's performance


Consistency can be over-rated. Mrgybe will repeat the Wall Street Journal’s attacks on Biden—and ignore Trump’s Hitlerian turn.

The chilling story of Trump trying to turn the military into the streets to overturn the election: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals

From buggy whip? Crickets. Bitching about Biden—who has just been more successful legislatively, by far, than Drumpf the fascist.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a little more detail to the deranged claims of mrgybe, who scoffed when I wrote that this virus might kill one million people.

1. 8 of the 12 states with the highest death rate are in the south. Red states—with low vaccination rates, Trump voters, and “freedom fighters”. Gybe, with either no grasp of statistics, or no honesty, is blaming the death rate in red states on Biden.

2. California, with a governor who actually paid attention, is 40th in death rate.

3. Science matters.

4. Florida’s death rate is 50% higher than California’s

5. Mrgybe is full of shit.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
In other news….this same poster called me a “fear mongerer” because I suggested we take COVID seriously. We just recently passed the 1 million death number.

CB, When Biden moved into the WH, 400,000 had died from/with Covid in the prior year when the whole world was caught off balance and was scrambling for effective treatments, protocols and vaccines. You were relentless in your condemnation of the Trump Administration's response, as were others here. Biden came into office with the benefit of an array of effective vaccines, hugely improved knowledge of optimal treatments, and a widespread acceptance of preventative protocols. Despite these major advances, 600,000 have died in his first 18 months.......the same rate as the first chaotic year. Given your demonstrated passion for this topic, I'm trying to understand why you and other Trump critics here have been silent about the Biden Administration's performance


Consistency can be over-rated. Mrgybe will repeat the Wall Street Journal’s attacks on Biden—and ignore Trump’s Hitlerian turn.

The chilling story of Trump trying to turn the military into the streets to overturn the election: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals

From buggy whip? Crickets. Bitching about Biden—who has just been more successful legislatively, by far, than Drumpf the fascist.


It's such a lie
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One million dead, bard’s head still up his ass.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
In other news….this same poster called me a “fear mongerer” because I suggested we take COVID seriously. We just recently passed the 1 million death number.

CB, When Biden moved into the WH, 400,000 had died from/with Covid in the prior year when the whole world was caught off balance and was scrambling for effective treatments, protocols and vaccines. You were relentless in your condemnation of the Trump Administration's response, as were others here. Biden came into office with the benefit of an array of effective vaccines, hugely improved knowledge of optimal treatments, and a widespread acceptance of preventative protocols. Despite these major advances, 600,000 have died in his first 18 months.......the same rate as the first chaotic year. Given your demonstrated passion for this topic, I'm trying to understand why you and other Trump critics here have been silent about the Biden Administration's performance



That's a fair question.

First of all, pandemics have different "stages of life". So, a comparison of the Trump Administration response to the early and rapid growth of the COVID infection and the Biden Administration response and actions due to the "Endemic" stage of the COVID infection is meaningless.

I believe that the response to the initial Pandemic required a strong national response. As it turned out, the Blue States (who do control so much of the economy) stepped in and prevented what could have become total chaos.

Pandemic initial rate of growth and prevention of catastrophic and uncontrollable infection is, quite simply, a function of mathematics. Trump's Administration failed to recognize this...in my opinion.

We are now in the phase of this infection where it has become more of a "health concern" where we have protocols, vaccines and treatments that greatly reduce the capacity of the infection to go into the same sort of uncontrollable growth that the initial infection underwent. To this portion of the infection I give Biden a better grade. Vaccines are AVAILABLE to anyone that wants them. Treatments are AVAILABLE to the sickest. The Biden Administration has committed to increasing the availability of healthcare by extending the ACA and allowing negotiations over drugs within Medicare. A healthier population is better equipped to fight an endemic disease.

Yet, my biggest gripe with Trump continues. He continues to promote avoidance of vaccines. He continues to call the virus a hoax. He still has a significant following who believe anything he says. That may be part of the reason that the Red counties continue to die at higher rates due to COVID infection than those that are Blue.

It is true that COVID will continue to take large numbers of lives. But, one must understand how Pandemics progress to understand how the government should respond to the different stages of the pandemic. Simply looking at total deaths, within a time period, and judging this response indicates a misunderstanding of this progression.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the WSJ, Aug 18, with permission:

Fauci and Walensky Double Down on Failed Covid Response
Lockdowns were oppressive and deadly. But U.S. and WHO officials plan worse for the next pandemic.
By John Tierney

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention belatedly admitted failure this week. “For 75 years, CDC and public health have been preparing for Covid-19, and in our big moment, our performance did not reliably meet expectations,” Director Rochelle Walensky said. She vowed to establish an “action-oriented culture.”

Lockdowns and mask mandates were the most radical experiment in the history of public health, but Dr. Walensky isn’t alone in thinking they failed because they didn’t go far enough. Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to the president, recently said there should have been “much, much more stringent restrictions” early in the pandemic. The World Health Organization is revising its official guidance to call for stricter lockdown measures in the next pandemic, and it is even seeking a new treaty that would compel nations to adopt them. The World Economic Forum hails the Covid lockdowns as the model for a “Great Reset” empowering technocrats to dictate policies world-wide.

Yet these oppressive measures were taken against the longstanding advice of public-health experts, who warned that they would lead to catastrophe and were proved right. For all the talk from officials like Dr. Fauci about following “the science,” these leaders ignored decades of research—as well as fresh data from the pandemic—when they set strict Covid regulations. The burden of proof was on them to justify their dangerous experiment, yet they failed to conduct rigorous analyses, preferring to tout badly flawed studies while refusing to confront obvious evidence of the policies’ failure.

U.S. states with more-restrictive policies fared no better, on average, than states with less-restrictive policies. There’s still no convincing evidence that masks provided any significant benefits. When case rates throughout the pandemic are plotted on a graph, the trajectory in states with mask mandates is virtually identical to the trajectory in states without mandates. (The states without mandates actually had slightly fewer Covid deaths per capita.) International comparisons yield similar results. A Johns Hopkins University meta-analysis of studies around the world concluded that lockdown and mask restrictions have had “little to no effect on COVID-19 mortality.”

Florida and Sweden were accused of deadly folly for keeping schools and businesses open without masks, but their policies have been vindicated. In Florida the cumulative age-adjusted rate of Covid mortality is below the national average, and the rate of excess mortality is lower than in California, which endured one of the nation’s strictest lockdowns and worst spikes in unemployment. Sweden’s cumulative rate of excess mortality is one of the lowest in the world, and there’s one particularly dismal difference between it and the rest of Europe as well as America: the number of younger adults who died not from Covid but from the effects of lockdowns.

Even in 2020, Sweden’s worst year of the pandemic, the mortality rate remained normal among Swedes under 70. Meanwhile, the death rate surged among younger adults in the U.S., and a majority of them died from causes other than Covid. In Sweden, there have been no excess deaths from non-Covid causes during the pandemic, but in the U.S. there have been more than 170,000 of these excess deaths.

No one knows exactly how many of those deaths were caused by lockdowns, but the social disruptions, isolation, inactivity and economic havoc clearly exacted a toll. Medical treatments and screenings were delayed, and there were sharp increases in the rates of depression, anxiety, obesity, diabetes, fatal strokes and heart disease, and fatal abuse of alcohol and drugs.

These were the sorts of calamities foreseen long before 2020 by eminent epidemiologists such as Donald Henderson, who directed the successful international effort to eradicate smallpox. In 2006 he and colleagues at the University of Pittsburgh considered an array of proposed measures to deal with a virus as deadly as the 1918 Spanish flu.

Should schools be closed? Should everyone wear face masks in public places? Should those exposed to an infection be required to quarantine at home? Should public-health officials rely on computer models of viral spread to impose strict limitations on people’s movements? In each case, the answer was no, because there was no evidence these measures would make a significant difference.

“Experience has shown,” Henderson’s team concluded, “that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best and with the least anxiety when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted.” The researchers specifically advised leaders not to be guided by computer models, because no model could reliably predict the effects of the measures or take into account the “devastating” collateral damage. If leaders overreacted and panicked the public, “a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe.”

This advice was subsequently heeded in the pre-Covid pandemic plans prepared by the CDC and other public-health agencies. The WHO’s review of the scientific literature concluded that there was “no evidence” that universal masking “is effective in reducing transmission.” The CDC’s pre-2020 planning scenarios didn’t recommend universal masking or extended school and business closures even during a pandemic as severe as the 1918 Spanish flu. Neither did the U.K.’s 2011 plan, which urged “those who are well to carry on with their normal daily lives” and flatly declared, “It will not be possible to halt the spread of a new pandemic influenza virus, and it would be a waste of public health resources and capacity to attempt to do so.”

But those plans were abruptly discarded in March 2020, when computer modelers in England announced that a lockdown like China’s was the only way to avert doomsday. As Henderson had warned, the computer model’s projections—such as 30 Covid patients for every available bed in intensive-care units—proved to be absurdly wrong. Just as the British planners had predicted, it was impossible to halt the virus. A few isolated places managed to keep out the virus with border closures and draconian lockdowns, but the virus spread quickly once they opened up. China’s hopeless fantasy of “Zero Covid” became a humanitarian nightmare.

It was bad enough that Dr. Fauci, the CDC and the WHO ignored the best scientific advice at the start of this pandemic. It’s sociopathic for them to promote a worse catastrophe for future outbreaks. If a drug company behaved this way, ignoring evidence while marketing an ineffective treatment with fatal side effects, its executives would be facing lawsuits, bankruptcy and probably criminal charges. Dr. Fauci and his fellow public officials can’t easily be sued, but they need to be put out of business long before the next pandemic.

Mr. Tierney is a contributing editor to City Journal and a co-author of “The Power of Bad: How the Negativity Effect Rules Us and How We Can Rule It.”

Fugging idiots
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