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My Present/Future Quiver - Advice appreciated
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ghost1



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: My Present/Future Quiver - Advice appreciated Reply with quote

Looking at getting some new sails over the next few months as I just destroyed my 6.2 Neil Pryde Soul today. My 6.7 and 6.2 are my go-to sails, but sometimes the wind is too light for the 6.7... and then some days I get overpowered on that 6.2. I am able to handle the 6.2 until about 25kt. A lot of guys on the beach tell me I'll be overpowered with it, but I'm usually fine. So I think in general I can handle bigger sails.

I'm Sailing mostly 12-25kt. Lots of chop, mostly just free riding, I weigh 180lbs. Some days (like today it does hit 30kt with gusts). That's the highest wind I would be dealing with. How does this sound:

8.5 Ezzy Lion
6.7 Neil Pryde Fusion (current)
6.0 Ezzy Cheetah
5.3 Ezzy Panther
4.5 Hot Sails Smack (current)

I have a 125L x-cite ride and looking to soon buy about a 90ish L board for windier days. I was thinking JP allride or FSW. Also, I have starboard go 165L. Maybe use that with the Lion on the light wind days? How much wind would I need to get planing with that combo? I was thinking about a 9.5 but don't know if that's too much.

Would the 5.3 be able to handle the mid 20's and then when it gets to 30kt I use 4.5? I've never used the 4.5 yet because I don't have a small enough board. Would all this cover my wind range?

Thanks.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok let's open the Pandora Box ! From what you've posted so far it seems to me that you are a perfect example of the so called "coastal freerider" category of windsurfers /like me/. So based on my own 4 seasons experience ,latest articles in the windsurfing magazines and the latest gear catalogues the ideal all around quiver of boards and sails based on your weight and sailing conditions will be something like this:
Boards: ~120 l Freemove and ~90 l FSW /example: 122l RRD Firemove and 94l RRD Freestyle Wave/
Sails: 7 battens no cambers 7.5 and 6.5 freeride sails /example Ezzy Cheetah/
5 battens power wave 5.8; 5.2 and 4.7 sails / Ezzy Tiger/
I started the same way like you -with a 6.5m on a 160l -and it's been a roller coaster of hits and misses after that. My biggest mistakes were the extremes / have a 9.0 and 4.2 collecting dust in the garage/. 4 years , heap of wasted money and permanent arm/elbow traumas later I finally figured out my priorities and I'm going for a slightly lighter board wise version / I got to 165 lbs down from 175 finally this summer/of the above mentioned quiver with the addition of a 9' WindSUP /barely used/ and a personal preference for Starboard/Sailworks.


Last edited by adywind on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Lakes sailing.... my work horse sail has been a 7.5 followed by 6.0-65 then a 5.0 with a 4.5 that mostly gathers dust.

I have sailed many yrs on the South shore of Lake Erie the big wind comes from the spring and fall fronts which range from 15-35 and can last from 1-3 days.

Most common wind to rig for 15-25 with lots of 8-15. It all depends on how much time on the water you want to spend.

I've gone retro, and have an Equipe II and some Free Ride 125liter boards.

I figure my 7.5 Ezzy Cheetah and 6.3 Ezzy Wave will cover a good 90% of Great Lakes sailing.

I've sailed Burlington a bunch of times great spot, my favorite Lake Erie launch is in Angola,NY the beach at Captain Kidds.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Large sails are really a personal thing. I use a 9.5 Ezzy Lion with great success. It is stable in gusty winds, and that was important for conditions here in Montreal. I'm heavier than you are, so 8.5 would be a good fit for you. This and a 7.5 Ezzy Freeride are my most used sails.

They are not really heavy, but can feel heavy if not well setup.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: My Present/Future Quiver - Advice appreciated Reply with quote

ghost1 wrote:
I think in general I can handle bigger sails.

I'm Sailing mostly 12-25kt. Lots of chop, mostly just free riding, I weigh 180lbs. Some days (like today it does hit 30kt with gusts). That's the highest wind I would be dealing with. How does this sound:

8.5 Ezzy Lion
6.7 Neil Pryde Fusion (current)
6.0 Ezzy Cheetah
5.3 Ezzy Panther
4.5 Hot Sails Smack (current)

Five different kinds of sails in one 4.5 to 8.5 quiver for a guy who apparently knows how to sail powered way up sounds like chaos, overkill, and confusion. We were all in that boat until we wised up, got out the checkbook, quit buying mismatched individual sails because the price was right, and sprung for a contiguous quiver under one marque with the advice of a knowledgeable dealer. WOW, what a relief that transition was. Only then could we compare and choose among a barrel of apples when rigging rather than trying to figure out and assemble a rig from the whole produce department.

Every sail model handles differently. Every brand handles even more differently. Change masts and you mix them up even more. I realize you MAY not want the same sail brand and model from 4.5 to 8.5, but no two alike HAS to confuse your head, your boards, your fins, and your muscle memory. I try to saail the same whether on my 3.2 or my 6.2, so I want to minimize their differences so all I have to adapt to is the lower foot as sizes go up; I must oversheet more tightly and consciously for the first two or three jibes after switching to a bigger sail.

I can understand -- and argue both for and against -- the 8.5 being unique, maybe, but not necessarily, given sails like the Sailworks Retro. I can see, maybe, if waves are in your future, the 4.5 being slightly different if you feel compelled to try 3 or 4-batten sails for uber-maneuverability in big waves. But for even expert level recreational WSing, unless it's DTL wave sailing one day and lake slalom racing the next, the choices would stagger many sailors. Two sails of the same size and brand but different designs can feel extremely different, for better or worse depending on intended us. Hell, just adding or subtracting a single optional camber inducer can change a sail very significantly.

The there's the size progression, aside from differences in brand and design. Back when I sailed 6.8s, my 5.8 never got used. When the 6.8 was too much, the 5.2 was just right. 5.2 too weak, the 6.8 was fine. Now I often thoroughly enjoy my 6.2 'til my 4.7 is fully powered. I CAN switch sooner, but that wastes shred time. You may be able to skip the 6 or the 6.7, but I think it's more important to seek more similarity in your quiver for rigging, tuning, and sailing. There's no clearly superior brand or model of sail across any wide sail size range or even in one single size, and your priorities and preferences will evolve anyway, so why all the smorgasbord?

As for a 4.5 on a 90L board ... sure, it's doable, but in real world venues the chop when a 4.5 is necessary can beat you up on 90L. It depends on YOUR venue.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2597
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: My Present/Future Quiver - Advice appreciated Reply with quote

Greetings Mr. Ghost

The drops themselves seem pretty consistent with good range, though
as has been stated, having at least the same manufacturer is a good thing.

My Utah quiver is 9.5, 6.5, 5.5, 4.7, 4.2. 3.7. Good from 12MPH to 40MPH
The board change from a 155 ltr to 115 ltr occurs somewhere in th 6.5-5.5 range, but I'll ride my 5.5 in steady wind on my 80 ltr board.

My Gorge Quiver is 6.7, 5.7, 5.2,4.7,4.2,3.7,3.2. Good from 15MPH to
40+MPH.
Board change from 100 ltrs down to 79 ltrs at 5.2, and down to 70 ltrs at 3.2.

The 5.2 in the Gorge quiver is superfluous. The 9.5 to 6.5 drop in my Utah
quiver is doable, but having an 8.0 in there wouldn't hurt.

I have a lot of friends on Ezzys (I'm not on them my self) if you swapped
out that 6.7 for another Cheetah, and the 4.5 for a Panther, you'd have
a sweet quiver.

With your boards, I'd ride the 8.5 down to the 6.2 on the 125, and then I'd
ride the proposed 90 ltr board with the 5.3 and 4.5, but you can put a
6.2 on a modern 90 ltr board without issue.

The Go might come out for marginal 12MPH lake sailing, with the 8.5, but
that x-cite should plane up nearly as early with you on it.

.02

-Craig






ghost1 wrote:
Looking at getting some new sails over the next few months as I just destroyed my 6.2 Neil Pryde Soul today. My 6.7 and 6.2 are my go-to sails, but sometimes the wind is too light for the 6.7... and then some days I get overpowered on that 6.2. I am able to handle the 6.2 until about 25kt. A lot of guys on the beach tell me I'll be overpowered with it, but I'm usually fine. So I think in general I can handle bigger sails.

I'm Sailing mostly 12-25kt. Lots of chop, mostly just free riding, I weigh 180lbs. Some days (like today it does hit 30kt with gusts). That's the highest wind I would be dealing with. How does this sound:

8.5 Ezzy Lion
6.7 Neil Pryde Fusion (current)
6.0 Ezzy Cheetah
5.3 Ezzy Panther
4.5 Hot Sails Smack (current)

I have a 125L x-cite ride and looking to soon buy about a 90ish L board for windier days. I was thinking JP allride or FSW. Also, I have starboard go 165L. Maybe use that with the Lion on the light wind days? How much wind would I need to get planing with that combo? I was thinking about a 9.5 but don't know if that's too much.

Would the 5.3 be able to handle the mid 20's and then when it gets to 30kt I use 4.5? I've never used the 4.5 yet because I don't have a small enough board. Would all this cover my wind range?

Thanks.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil Pryde will have a much broader range. This will allow you to use less sails. You'd be surprised at how cheap the used 2014 sails are at Adventure sports Maui. Ask for Gus. Let him know I sent you.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1544

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister ISO hit the nail on the head. Find a brand that you like and stick with it. A 6.7 of one brand will sail and be sized different than another brand. Feel is everything in windsurfing. Different brands work best with the proper mast. Modern sails have a huge wind range with the correct mast and proper rigging. This makes larger jumps in sail size doable. keep in mind that a half meter jump is tiny 8.5 to 8.0. Different story 4.0 to 3.5. Its percentage of sail that you need to look at. Not just SQ. meters. I use only Ezzy sails for a lot of reasons. Pretty much all brands work well these days.
I'm 170 lbs. My lite air board is a 2015 Tabou Rocket LTD. In 12 to 20 mph winds I rip on my 6.5 Cheetah. When the wind picks up I drop to a 5.2 Ezzy Tiger. I like this drop because if my Rocket starts to feel big, its an easy step to my Tabou 3s 96. This is a really fun combo when it starts to avg. 20mph. From there its 4.7 and 4.2 Tigers. These are normally used at a different location in the ocean and surf. I also use the proper Ezzy mast for each sail. 4 sails pretty much covers most of the windsurfing I do. Flat water blasting at my lake to waves on the Cal. coast. Hope this helps
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've helped a bit in aerotech r+d, over the past couple of decades. sail brands try to offer distinct differences from one model to the next.

on top of that, some designers spend lots of time designing for specific venues. over the years aerotechs have gained the reputation of having loads of power, with a few exceptions along the way.

and, yes, some designers' attributes when combined diametrically opposed will cause problems. especially when blending masts. some designers' lines compliment each other too.

i use my 7.5 phantom 80% of the time. 9.0 free speed 5%, 6.8 phantom 10%, 6.2 phantom, 5.8, 5.2, 4.7, and 4.0 charges the few few times left. the free speed is all about planing and stability at top speeds for low to moderate winds. the phantoms, all around use with various masts used. the charges for seriously powered waves or storms.

the sails that i like that are siimlar to mine are typically prydes, sailworks, and lofts. others that i have tried that i like with SDM's include the cheetah, racier gaastra's, and maui sails. i have never really enjoyed sailing virtually any sail larger than 5.2 on flat water with RDM's. but i tend to sail really lit up.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
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ghost1



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the replies, I will put that information to use.

In regards to keeping the same brand, that is actually what I am trying to do. I bought the NP sail and smack before I knew I wanted to stick with Ezzy. So I'll transition over when the NP sail breaks down.

In chop, what kind of wind range would I get out of a 5.3 Ezzy wave sail? 25-30kt is my goal but I don't know if that's realistic. I would stick with Free ride cheetah but they don't make it that small.
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