jibe: stuck in entry

watermonkey · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 108

I can't seem to level out the board after getting onto the rail on entry and end up just riding it around until I stall. I think I basically don't know when I'm halfway through the jibe. I'm sailing in chop so drawing out the turn is pretty sketchy...I'm really focused on a fast transition between hooked in on approach and carving to maintain control. Any ideas on breaking this habit?

adywind · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 665

Does this mean you don't flip the rig at all?

pmlct · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 68 Location: Middletown CT

It sounds like you are trying to rush into it to get it over with and not processing what happens from the mid point and beyond. At least it sounds like you are carving the board. It also sounds like you are hanging onto the sail for way too long without flipping. This causes you to depend on the sail for balance but stalls you out at the end.
Try to carve less severely to widen the turn, let go of the sail in the mid point of the carve and even with no help from you it will rotate on its own although as you improve you will learn to help it and time it to make it better. You need to let the lower half of your body control the board while your upper body controls the sail. They each have their own separate tasks to perform.
If you don't flip the sail you can't power out of the turn. If you carve too sharply you will lose most/all of your speed. Don't overthink it like a golf swing, just have fun with it and try different variations on the above advice. It is the most rewarding skill to learn on a board and makes sailing 100 times better.

kmf · Joined: 02 Apr 2001 Posts: 503

Buy dashers 12 step gybe video and watch it about 10 times.

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

What pmict said very well, plus ... just as you do when jibing your car -- look out the windshield at the environment in your near future to gauge your turn. You don't so much plan and stare at your precise path as take in the scenery and any major obstacles then let your subconscious do the actual fine-tooth steering. Just carving all the way through the turn, rather then stalling it at dead downwind, was most of the battle for most of us, and you're already past that common hurdle.

BTW ... I've been WSing obsessively since 1980 and planing through jibes since 1992 or so, but am retrogressing to your stage where, all too often, I do exactly what you're doing as my board jibe gets ahead of my sail jibe. i.e., I've re-formed that nasty habit. My cure has been to flip the sail as I begin the carve; it's effortless and virtually instantaneous then, but depends on an extremely tight, fast, thus high-g, turn. With wider, slower turns that's too soon, so I delay the same very quick sail jibe (I throw the sail, not rotate it by hand) until my board is pointing almost downwind. Either way, I want my hands on the new side of the boom and powering up before my board reaches dead downwind. That almost guarantees a fast exit on a path of my choosing.

Mike \m/

uwindsurf · Joined: 18 Aug 2012 Posts: 968 Location: Classified

Look through the window of your sail to know where you are in the turn and flip your sail accordingly. Start with flipping the sail when the nose is pointed downwind. You can fine tune from there.

westender · Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 1288 Location: Portland / Gorge

Maybe you're just standing on the back of your board, like people do, and not getting your center of gravity forward and into the turn.

watermonkey · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 108

No, I'm not flipping the sail since I end up carving past the midpoint...I'm too late.

I'm definitely in a rush to get on the rail so I can maintain control after unhooking...ie, I know instinctively there's control in chop when you're on the rail and cutting through it rather than bouncing over the tops. I'm well powered and sailing fast, good control in chop when hooked in.

I can get the board way over - sometimes I can almost see over the top of the sail into the turn. I just can't pull out of it - ease off pressure on the rail. There's something about having the sail in front of me that I end up looking at the sail rather than through it. A target fixation thing. I've tried looking back at the clew, which isn't better in terms of knowing when I'm halfway through the turn.

I think I'm very focused on the lower part of my body, trying to shove my knees first into the turn, staying low. If I could exit clew-first with my feet switched and still moving, I could then focus on the flip earlier in the turn, though I don't know if that's trading one bad habit for another.

I've watched the Dasher and Guy Cribb videos at least 10x each. I can see the steps in my head but I'm not on flat water. Taking my time to reach back, unhook, sink down and sail a bit before stepping across, etc doesn't work for me in chop.

btw, I have managed to get a footswitch in (without thinking about it) with less deep of a carve but dead in the water at that point (then fall in).

NOVAAN · Joined: 28 Sep 1994 Posts: 1549

Without actually seeing what your doing wrong, none of us can fix your problems. All of the above are good points to check. Most people who "round up" in a turn have a very late sail flip. This can be cause by sheeting out the sail that in turn will force you to lean back against the pull. This will cause you sink the tail of your board.
By the time you regain balance enough to move your feet you board is well past the point of a good exit... SOOO. Have speed going into the turn. Unhook early. Bear off as you enter your turn. keep your weight forward and low as you start your turn. keep your sail sheeted in until your ready to flip. You should be thinking sail flip just past down wind. Feet step before or after the flip. Its done both ways. Keep the sail balanced as you flip. Pull the mast across the center line of the board as you flip. This will allow the sail to rotate effortlessly. If you time things right, your can take your hand completely off your rig and the sail will flip and return back to your hands on your new tack.
The main point I wanted to make is have a friend video your turns. You might think your doing all these things. The video should help pick out your flaws. Slow motion is really a great tool. Don't keep doing the same thing wrong over and over. If a good sailor at your local spot tells you to change something, work hard to make that change.....

adywind · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 665

There was a phrase for it-you get virtually hypnotized with the carve and by the time you wake up it's too late , it's probably fear aswell or something.
It's alright to start carving early-it definitely helps with control in chop-but then you have to make the flip right away. You may do it a bit too soon at first , but persevere you'll get better at the timing soon enough. Jus flip it man , get over with it, let go with that back hand!
PS: I realized you might not telling it all. If your sail is too powered while you are carving already and it throws you forward, it means you haven't sheeted in enough. I like to slide my back hand back and look at the clew momentarily at the same time I'm placing my back foot on the rail. The more powered up I am, the farther back I have to slide my hand to be able to sheet in /sometimes almost to the boom clamp/. A bit like what KP is doing here: