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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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 Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Sir, I think you are mistaken.
"The Jabberwock with eyes of flame
came WHIFFLING through the Tulgey Wood
and burbled as it came."
As for galumphing, didn't Humpty Dumpty proudly proclaim,"When I use words, they mean what I wish them to mean." (Heavy emphasis on the I each time.) Alice had no answer to that, so who are we to disagree!
Anyone who doubts the Kona's propensity to burble should just listen to the flow behind the step tail, as it lifts up to the plane, then feel its whiffle as it galumps (in the Humpty Dumpty sense) across the briny.
Of course. I cannot claim it would do the same in a river! (  ) |
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Sailboarder
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| GURGLETROUSERS wrote: |
Anyone who doubts the Kona's propensity to burble should just listen to the flow behind the step tail, as it lifts up to the plane, then feel its whiffle as it galumps (in the Humpty Dumpty sense) across the briny.
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Well, maybe it's not proper to get technical here, with all this poetry...
Still, the K1 burbling is caused by a nose too low, forcing the planing area at the back to a negative angle. This impedes planing tremendously. If you just hold it like that in more wind, the burble will turn to a clear vacuum sucking noise. The front want to plane, while the back slows it down, resulting into a lot of pull! I call it Slow Plane mode and was stuck there for a while before I figured the nose has to ride higher than normal raceboards. |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think not Sir,
"One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. "
I do not doubt such burbling, I like Kona's, but they are a bit long
in between cross chop on the river, where I'd prefer my vorpal blade. ;*)
-Craig
| GURGLETROUSERS wrote: | Sir, I think you are mistaken.
"The Jabberwock with eyes of flame
came WHIFFLING through the Tulgey Wood
and burbled as it came."
Anyone who doubts the Kona's propensity to burble should just listen to the flow behind the step tail, as it lifts up to the plane, then feel its whiffle as it galumps (in the Humpty Dumpty sense) across the briny.
Of course. I cannot claim it would do the same in a river! ( ) |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well Craig, we'll agree that, in galumphing back he was at least joyful. (Floating on air so to speak, having slain his demon.)
P.S. Glad you like the Kona. I admit to liking small wave boards too, especially with my new 3.7 Combat sail. |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Sailboarder wrote: | | gregnw44 wrote: |
Or I might limit my potential, because I'm being polite... like this summer when I participated in several official KonaOne races.
I would've felt really bad... if I beat sponsored KonaOne champs too many times in official races (during the first week that I ever sailed a KonaOne). Therefore in about half of these races, I finished right behind them. And in the other half (approx.) I finished right in front of them (when I accidentally let my potential flourish 
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Well, is it the good thing to do? It's a competitive sport and letting them win limits their potential. You should go ahead if you can teach them a thing or two. |
Nah.... that's not the Kona way
Their website... and their vids... and the reps I talked to - all say it's about fun and recreation on the water... friendly and fair competition... the focus is on family and fresh air and fun activities, not on overly competitive aggressiveness, or maximizing loopholes in the rules, or protests and judges.
I love the Kona message... and I really liked their products... and I think it's a great way to build more grass-roots windsurfing around the world.
And personally, I'm not a "really competitive person". And in windsurfing, I'm more about sharing the stoke, and helping people have more practical fun, and keeping this a bit more simple instead of a bit more complex.
I was just happy to be out on the water with these guys... and trying to learn from them... and learn about the Kona gear.
Greg |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sailboarder wrote: | | gregnw44 wrote: |
The point is -
The centerboard is 1/3 the way down.
I'm planing.
I'm in the straps on this board, which are approx. in a similar location to KoneOne straps (not exact, but similar). |
I don't think the position is similar at all. The Kona straps are as aft as they could be. The duck tail of the board doesn't touch water while on plane, so you might as well cut it and remove it. And the Kona back strap is close to the fin, like the back strap must be on your other board.
If I lower the CB on any board, it's CLR will move forward. This requires the rider to stand forward on the board. There are straps for that on old longboards, but not on the Kona. I know for sure I cannot sail in the straps of my Kona with CB partially down and I doubt it can be done without a specific setup or contorsions. |
What I'm saying is - In the vid I posted, I'm in straps on the Lightning that are in kind of a similar location (not exact, but similar) as when I sailed the Kona using it's straps.
The Lightning has 8 straps and although there are traditional ways to use them, there are no rules. And in the vid I'm using them in a hybrid way. I have my front foot in the back beating strap. And I have my back foot in the front reaching strap. I'm doing this, just practicing and fooling around.
At a full 200 lbs. I'm not going fast enough to get all the way back to the little, narrow, and thin tail of my board where the reaching straps are.
In fact, I'm barely planing... yes, fully planing... but just barely. Most of this session, I was not planning and had the centerboard down fully extended. But the wind ramped up just a bit for 5 min, so I retracted the CB a bit and stepped back to the hybrid position. I didn't want to rip upwind, and I didn't want to fly downwind... I just wanted to maintain a beam reach.
I was going fast enough to be in the straps where I was... but not fast enough with the "ghetto taped up" (Bruce P at Sailworks cracked up when he saw this) 7.9 XT race sail. I'm used to using 9-11M sails in wind like this. The little worn out 7.9 wasn't going to support enough of my weight, to get all the way back to the skinny little tail, where the reaching straps are, on my Lightning.
ANYWAY - I'm about 2/3 the way back (here in this hybrid strap location) on my Lightning. And on the Kona, I'm about 2/3 the way back when I'm in the straps.
And in this section of my Lightning, there is decent width and thickness to support my weight.
And it is similar to being 2/3 the way back on the Kona, regarding the width and board thickness.
And in these locations on both boards, my feet are about the same distance from my mastbase. I'm using a very similar stance.
I'm not comparing where the fins are relative to my feet... and it doesn't matter much to me, in this discussion. Because I'm not going very fast (same speed sailing both boards)... and I've had the CB down a little on both boards in marginal winds. So, my CLR is kinda similar.
And I don't care about the step tail all that much, in this regard. At my weight, going this marginal planing speed, much of the Kona tail is sometimes in the water.
In conclusion, what I'm talking about is... the square area of foam and plastic that is supporting my fat butt... the area where I'm using the straps in this instance... on both boards... at this speed... both boards with CB"s down approx. 1/3... is about the same size.
If I was going much faster on the Lighting, I could retract the CB all the way and bring the mast-track back, and I could get in the back reaching straps. If I was going much faster on the Kona, I could retract the CB all the way, and the board would be riding higher in the water, shortening the water-line. And probably with enough wind and speed, I'd feel more pressure and force in my back foot, than my front foot.
But this is a whole lot of picky details, that techy guys can argue. I'd rather not... and I think this stuff is way past the point of giving some guidance to guys like Del and tons of other's.
It's way better to get out sailing with good and experienced people. And keep an open mind... be like a sponge, take it all in. Try lots of different things in different conditions.
There are many "right ways" to do all this stuff.
Greg
Last edited by gregnw44 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | The only racing longboards I had with straps were an F2 Lightning and a Mistral Equipe II XR. Being in the back straps with the dagger down (1/3) would be a bad idea. If there isn't enough wind to get going at full speed (in the back straps), a beam reach with 1/3 dagger works just fine, especially if you are concerned about losing ground to leeward.
The main issue is when to go for the back straps and full speed? On the boards I had, you slide the track all the way back, bear off, put the front foot in and then the back foot and hang on. Once at full speed, heading above a beam reach was easy, really no different than a short board, just much bigger radius jibes, plus planning jibes were also possible.
Weight, wind, water state and experience will dictate when you are ready for full speed runs.
On my Mistral, I could blow the doors off most intermediate and novice short board sailors in 20 mph winds. |
YES... this in total, is also my experience.
And also regarding this -
With raceboards < If there isn't enough wind to get going at full speed (in the back straps), a beam reach with 1/3 dagger works just fine, especially if you are concerned about losing ground to leeward. >
And this is what I'm doing in the vid. Not going full speed. And not in the back straps. I'm in a hybrid "2/3 the way back" strap location.
And this summer, as I experimented and sailed the Kona for the first time in very light wind's and also wind's up to the low 20's (over a 10 day period) I played around with different strap locations... and various stances figuring out what worked for me and my weight and my experience.
And in marginal wind, I found that I could use the straps, and was planning, and was holding a beam reach... with the CB down a bit. And the board was very comfortable and smooth. I could also in that wind, retract the CB fully and go more downwind well. And if there was a bit more wind, I could retract the CB fully and sail it like a kinda shortboard or FW design.
The Kona is very versatile... and it's easy to sail well.
Greg -
PS - While sailing it in Hood River one day, with the 9M sail... in 20 mph wind. I did one planning jibe after another... just BAF-ing. Fully planning, totally power-up, totally retracted CB... planning out of jibe after jibe.
I can not do that on my Lightning... and it was a total blast.
I was in the relatively flat water of the HR Waterfront Park... and was blowing past intermediate shortboarder's in the straight's and in the jibes. |
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DelCarpenter
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 499
Location: Cedar Falls, IA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, on the issue of holding back during a Kona race against "sponsored" riders I agree emphatically with Sailboarder that you shouldn't. I bet two of the riders you counted as "sponsored" were the brand owner, Joachim Larsson and the North American distributor, Sandy Gottlieb. Another two "sponsored" riders might have been Cody Stewart & Mike Rayl who are quite valuable to Kona as workers and most importantly as ambassadors.
Ease of use is a huge selling point for Kona, which you were proving in your Kona racing. |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| DelCarpenter wrote: | Greg, on the issue of holding back during a Kona race against "sponsored" riders I agree emphatically with Sailboarder that you shouldn't. I bet two of the riders you counted as "sponsored" were the brand owner, Joachim Larsson and the North American distributor, Sandy Gottlieb. Another two "sponsored" riders might have been Cody Stewart & Mike Rayl who are quite valuable to Kona as workers and most importantly as ambassadors.
Ease of use is a huge selling point for Kona, which you were proving in your Kona racing. |
Sandy??
Do you mean, Steve?
And regarding "holding back"... don't worry... I don't.
And speaking of ambassadors, yes, that's a good group, you mention. And I've also been one for a long time. And there are many more here on this forum. They might be promoting the sport in general... instead of one certain brand. But they spend time giving advice and helping complete strangers... guiding newer folks along the various paths of windsurfing... most all of it, totally volunteer. I do this a lot in the NW.
Next -
It would be nice if other experienced folks signed their posts with their name. Don't you always wonder, "who is that person giving such detailed and specific advice". To me, anonymous advice is not worth quite as much... compared to advice from someone you know. And beyond that for example, the best people to learn from, are out sailing when you are.
As far as racing goes, the most important thing is to have fun. It's all good to me, whether I'm near the top of a longboard race... or near the bottom of a Gorge slalom race... I have a great time all the same.
More people should be singing or telling jokes during longboard races... giving helpful tips to the less experienced... and trash talking the other top contenders, LOL
Have fun, Greg - |
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DanWeiss
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2296
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Sailboarder wrote: | SNIP
I don't think the position is similar at all. The Kona straps are as aft as they could be. The duck tail of the board doesn't touch water while on plane, so you might as well cut it and remove it. And the Kona back strap is close to the fin, like the back strap must be on your other board.
If I lower the CB on any board, it's CLR will move forward. This requires the rider to stand forward on the board. There are straps for that on old longboards, but not on the Kona. I know for sure I cannot sail in the straps of my Kona with CB partially down and I doubt it can be done without a specific setup or contorsions. |
The Kona One can be sailed fast with the centerboard partially down on beam reaches in moderate winds. I've raced it this way with success because it allows me to generate more power in the rig when the wind is not quite ready for planing. The board rides higher in the water and is less sensitive to slight weight adjustments. If the centerboard tension is adjusted properly, one can transition directly into full planing mode by retracting the board at the right time. Having the board down part way also allows me to climb over other sailors and then slide down after making the pass.
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