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Mast Rake
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

akrausz wrote:
What is an example of when I would change it? Again just blasting back and forth.
If the nose is flying too much or if the board is sticking too much to the water.

Coachg
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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
akrausz wrote:
What is an example of when I would change it? Again just blasting back and forth.
If the nose is flying too much or if the board is sticking too much to the water.

Coachg

Thanks for the tip, but it's not obvious to me which of those two scenarios would benefit from more (or less) mast rake.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When in doubt about a certain setting what works for me is to try out the extremes. While sailing try and bring the sail way back or stand it up as tall as you can. Adjust sheeting angle and vary your reach. This will give you a better feel for what's happening.

Look at what happens in regards to harness lines. When you bring the sail back the lines will also come back with less forward drive. On the contrary when a sail is farther forward there's more drive available from the lines.

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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
When in doubt about a certain setting what works for me is to try out the extremes. While sailing try and bring the sail way back or stand it up as tall as you can.
I do that a good amount, and I prefer raking the mast back to lower the center of effort. But I have to be aware of the how the sail's fore aft position lines up with the planing part of the board. And then when very overpowered I rake the mast more upright typically. That works for me.

Just wondering if others have different experiences.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When really overpowered (as in not in complete control), I pinch higher or dive deeper off the wind until I'm back in control. In fact, that's one of the many reasons I like to rig big ... so I CAN pinch high and dive deep with plenty of power ... i.e., for the halibut.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typically to rake the mast forward you have to sheet out and to rake the mast back you will sheet in. For me, if overpowered leaning the mast forward leads to loss of control. I'm with Iso's on how to control overpowered sailing.

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm overpowered to the point that leaning the mast forward would lead me to lose control, I'll rake the mast way forward and leeward hard, sheet in hard, and press my toes hard into the deck (in my centered rear strap*) all at once to slash off the wind NOW. This turns everything far downwind, reduces the apparent wind, and thus puts me back in control before there's time to lose it. Hesitate, and all is lost, especially if hooked in. Do it very aggressively, and it's good for a big smile and a good, fast, powered-up, well-controlled, deep-off-the-wind blast.

* I don't know how that translates to widespread dual rear straps ... probably requires driving one's knees hard into the slash so the arches of both feet roll the hull to leeward (leeward rail down, windward rail up.)

This also keeps me out there having fun when most other sailors go ashore, rig down, and relaunch, only to find the wind has dropped back down to the point they have to go ashore again, rig back up, and relaunch again. In real-world, inland conditions, this process has many otherwise competent sailors spending much more time slogging across the wind shadow, plowing through shoreline weeds, derigging and rigging, getting too hot or too cold on the beach, etc. than ... you know ... windsurfing. It's good for at least a square meter's worth of sail size either way, even on small sails.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
* I don't know how that translates to widespread dual rear straps ... probably requires driving one's knees hard into the slash so the arches of both feet roll the hull to leeward (leeward rail down, windward rail up.)

On widespread dual rear straps I have put my rear foot in the leeward strap when going stupidly overpowered deeply off the wind.

Coachg
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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Mast Rake Reply with quote

akrausz wrote:
For freeriding I've always raked the sail back once planing. However I've read contradicting information on optimal mast rake which has led me to second-guess what is best. Other than striving to find the ideal mast rake for a given board sail combo, are there any generic performance benefits one way or the other, or is back always best when powered up?


Simple physics Smile
Mast foot pressure (MFP) is a very important factor, right? Despite the name, it is a force. When the mast is more upright, there is more MFP. If the mast is raked back, the force is applied at the angle and therefore is reduced.
The race sails have such shape that there is more impression that they are raked back than they are indeed.
Guy Cribb has a grate magazine article about this. It is available in PDF format on his Intuition website.

Andrei
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1400

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When cruising along on a reach, beam, close or broad, with my Ezzy Cheetah (not a wave sail), and I have a slight rake to my mast and I am moving at a pace that seems satisfactory, if I rake the sail back more to where the foot of the sail closes the gap with the board deck, I get an extra two or three knots out of the gear, per my GPS.
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