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Tuning foil boards with a far-back mast track
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1278
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:44 pm    Post subject: Tuning foil boards with a far-back mast track Reply with quote

So I've got this new Fanatic Skysup WS foilboard and I'm trying to learn how to use it.

I've had it in the water three times but the first two times were not nearly windy enough with a 6.8 sail, and third time was only briefly, maybe, windy enough with a 5.7 sail.

I can say that the board floats nice and is surprisingly easy to tack and slog upwind despite being so short, but it feels awkward to try to fly it with sail power. I'm really comfortable foiling with my Slingshot Infinity 76 foil on an old formula windsurf board, but I had a tough time getting on the foil and struggled to keep the sail sheeted in and maintain the right trim and elevation when on the skysup. Maybe lack of leverage from standing so far inboard and so close to the mast base (which is barely in front of the front footstraps on the skysup).

Is anybody else riding a similar style of crossover foilboard that has tips on trimming it? I was thinking I might try putting the mast base as far forward as it will possible go, because the mast track is much further back than it is on my other board. Then again I see pros like that swiss foil freestyle guy who run their mast base really far back and footstraps on the centerline and somehow make it work. I wonder if they're using a different style of foil or tuning their foils differently?

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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5008
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of guys using short wind...wing boards go strapless.
Wind foils back.
Other foils forward.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1370

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your old board is set up for formula windsurfing with the fin box way back and the mast track froward. You have made the adjustments in your stance and sail placement to get that board to fly and feel balanced. Your Sky is set up opposite. If you want the new board to behave like the old one, place the foil as far back as you can in the track and the sail forward. If it still feels like things are not balanced you could mount your foil wing on the switch fuse all the way back as close to the mast as it will go. That said the the 76 wing works best in the B position. Every little adjustment makes a difference in foiling. Move things around until you get it right for your style...
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you're planning on winging, otherwise you bought the wrong board for your conditions.

I bought a couple of boards that are similar, a JP 115 and a Progressive 138. Both have a step tail and the foil tracks more forward. The Progressive has a mast track but using it in any setting other than far back makes slogging and tacking extremely hard. The foil track goes further to the back of the board, so it is possible to mount the foil further back than in the JP. But I found it to work much better with smaller sails (5.6 max) than with a 6.5. For a 75 cm wide board with plenty of volume, that's very disappointing. The volume distribution and nose rocker is seem oriented fully towards winging and not towards using a rig.

The JP only has a fixed mast insert, so the distance between foil and rig is a lot less than on a formula board or a Fanatic Stingray. I had a bit of a hard time getting used to the board, although it was easier to foil and slog than the progressive. Fortunately, Nina then used it, first for windfoiling and then to learn winging, for which it was great. Lots of wingers try to learn on boards that are "expert size" (too small for beginners), and have a really hard time initially.
But I think the board is limited with respect to sail size. Nina only used it with a 5.2 or smaller. With a much larger sail, the geometry is just not right.

Nina ended up on a custom ~ 85 l custom wing board, and I bought a Stingray 140, and we are quite happy with these now. I'll give winging another try on the JP sometime, but chances are I'll end up sticking to windfoiling, and the JP and Progressive will be sold.
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motogon



Joined: 19 Aug 2000
Posts: 369
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest to mount foil mast all way back and sail mast foot all way forward. Take footstraps off if you have them installed. With time, when you get comfortable you may start moving mast foot back.
I'm riding RRD Pocket Rocket 120: it's even shorter then Skysup WS. My observation: shorter distance between foil mast and sail mast foot - board more sensitive and required more precise balance. Footstraps placed in wrong spot would screw that balance too. I'm riding my board strapless all the time.

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bviehman



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used the Skysup WS edition a few times and it's super fun! Actually an excellent setup for windsurf wave-foiling. A different kind of foil experience than a traditional freeride setup though, as you're finding out. I would also recommend placing the sail all the way forward and the foil all the way back. That will help stabilize the ride. That setup will still be very maneuver focused, so using it with your 5.7 or smaller will be the best way to go. I would consider trying it strapless, or with just the front straps installed. You can also try keeping the sail trimmed more upright than usual.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1278
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can definitely see the potential in the board. I'll keep experimenting and see if I can find that niche where it shines. Looks like we may have 5.7 or even 4.7 foiling conditions today so I'll give that a go. Perhaps it works well with small sails and only feels unbalanced with > 6 m sails. I notice in the marketing materials they show Arthur Arutkin sailing it with a 4.5 held very upright or leaned slightly forward, and with really long harness lines. I reckon a larger sail would have to be leaned even more forward to get the center of effort in the right spot, which could rapidly increase the awkwardness factor with larger sails. I couldn't find a sail range published for this board.


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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 924

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You definitely want long harness lines (if you use them) for this style of foiling. Much like how modern wavesailing is all +30".
Otherwise you are too locked in to control the pitch through suble body movements.

I also prefer a slightly lower boom.
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motogon



Joined: 19 Aug 2000
Posts: 369
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
You definitely want long harness lines (if you use them) for this style of foiling. Much like how modern wavesailing is all +30".
Otherwise you are too locked in to control the pitch through suble body movements.

I also prefer a slightly lower boom.

It's opposite actually. You stand up-right , so you will use shorter then your regular windsurfing lines. Most of the time I don't even put harness on. You may need harness if you are going to do long reaches, but then you are on wrong board.

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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1370

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I foil with small sails and in board straps. An up right stance and use 22 inch lines with a seat harness. Lots of the time I am out of the harness. When I really want to head up wind I use both straps and in the harness. I tried longer lines but the just fell out of the hook. My boom is chest high..
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