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taking the 5th guilty or not guilty?
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 13336
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:25 pm    Post subject: taking the 5th guilty or not guilty? Reply with quote

As we know trump made a big deal about people taking the 5th when he was running for president in 2016. Making it presumed one is guilty by past people doing so.

Hillary in Benghazi was investigated by was it 5-6 ultra partisan right wing investigations and she and the Obama administration never said she could not testify or hand over documents one time. In fact she even went and testified for a record number of hours and not one referral for anything came from the FBI who also investigated her. And trumps Barr in-justice did not get one grand jury. We even have one republican saying they did it to stop her from winning the election and it was working. Hillary and Bill were investigated by ultra partisan right wing special prosecutors with ties to Jeffery Epstein. That was 60 million or more probably 200 million in todays dollars and 6 years with no grand jury indictment over a investment of 70 grand that occurred years before Clintons ran for President and they lost that investment.

Now we have Eric Trump on being deposed for his families business that Cohen noted occurred fraud activities and he went to jail for his part in the Trump criminal activities and Trump did not pardon him or ever make a claim that Cohen was a liar like he does. So these investigations have a witness that Trump did not have the justice department go after him for those claims and tump did not sue for not being the truth about him. We know trump is the most litigious person ever. We know that trump has conceded and did not fight the Trump University scam.

Here we Have donny trump in the NY cvil case being deposed and he claims the 5th over 500 times. Aren't these in a case of civil instructed to hold it against him?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/nyregion/trump-organization-fraud-letitia-james.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20220119&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=115919677&segment_id=80067&user_id=f730a3b9531f5b2c781c5ff7996dd05c
Quote:


A lawyer for Mr. Trump did not respond to a request for comment.

Because Ms. James’s investigation is civil, she can sue Mr. Trump and his company but cannot file criminal charges. Her inquiry is running parallel to a criminal investigation led by the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, which is examining some of the same conduct. Ms. James’s office is participating in that separate investigation, which is continuing. Mr. Bragg, also a Democrat, inherited the inquiry from his predecessor after taking office on Jan. 1.

In early December, Ms. James issued a subpoena for Mr. Trump as well as for Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump, seeking to question them as part of her civil inquiry. Ms. James already questioned another of Mr. Trump’s sons, Eric Trump, in October 2020. He invoked his Fifth Amendment right against incriminating himself in response to more than 500 questions, the new court filing said.


Now we also know that Jeffery Epstein in a deposition where he was asked about trump and young girls was he present, Epstein took the 5th yep Epstein admitted he himslf raped children. How can one take the 5th noting triump was having his way with children but not and admit himslf was, makes no sense, unless if it is a more serious crime to be gang raping children.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=trmp+says+taking+the+fith&docid=608037940481114203&mid=CB69C4C1E52D135A1391CB69C4C1E52D135A1391&view=detail&FORM=VIRE


Five Times Donald Trump Has Bashed Pleading The Fifth | MTP Daily | MSNBC

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20657

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking the 5th implies absolutely nothing about guilt or innocence. It is nothing more and nothing less than exercising one's constitutional rights. If you don't like it, change the law, via due process.
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SAS



Joined: 18 Feb 1997
Posts: 123
Location: planet earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISO, do you have a brain?

ISO: "I take the 5th."
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 13336
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Taking the 5th implies absolutely nothing about guilt or innocence. It is nothing more and nothing less than exercising one's constitutional rights. If you don't like it, change the law, via due process.


Quote:
But taking the Fifth can have severe consequences nonetheless. In a civil case or a civil enforcement action, the judge or jury can draw an adverse inference to support liability when the defendant invokes the Fifth Amendment. And an employee who invokes the Fifth Amendment in response to questions from federal agents who are investigating corporate wrongdoing might be fired as a result.


https://www.mololamken.com/knowledge-What-Does-It-Really-Mean-To-Take-the-Fifth

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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my understanding is something like you cannot take the 5th in front of a grand jury, unless you really have good reason to believe you have done something illegal. and an attorney must validate that to the judge.

An Atlanta D.A. asked to convene a grand jury to investigate Donald Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results.
Thursday, January 20, 2022 1:16 PM EST

Quote:
The request had been expected because crucial witnesses have refused to participate voluntarily, as has been the case with many investigations into Mr. Trump’s actions. A grand jury could issue subpoenas compelling them to provide information.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2507
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would keep him from lying (he's not a liar right)?"
Intent is really really hard to prosecute.
I mean, "who are the brain police?"

-Craig


real-human wrote:
my understanding is something like you cannot take the 5th in front of a grand jury, unless you really have good reason to believe you have done something illegal. and an attorney must validate that to the judge.

An Atlanta D.A. asked to convene a grand jury to investigate Donald Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results.
Thursday, January 20, 2022 1:16 PM EST

Quote:
The request had been expected because crucial witnesses have refused to participate voluntarily, as has been the case with many investigations into Mr. Trump’s actions. A grand jury could issue subpoenas compelling them to provide information.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2147

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Taking the 5th implies absolutely nothing about guilt or innocence. It is nothing more and nothing less than exercising one's constitutional rights. If you don't like it, change the law, via due process.


Wrongo o Boyo. Asserting the 5th in a civil proceeding can permit the trier of fact to make a negative inference against the person asserting the 5th when independent evidence exists of the fact to which the party refuses to answer.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20657

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google it, dudes. It's not so simple. Just one example:

https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-journal/a-civil-litigators-guide-to-the-privilege-against-self-incrimination-in-floridas-state-and-federal-courts/

Besides, who on EARTH actually reads any of Dean's posts? I was addressing his thread title, not his vomit.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 13336
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100 times...pleads the 5th

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-they-have-everything-alex-jones-meets-with-jan-6-panel-pleads-fifth-131694661525


‘They have everything:’ Alex Jones meets with Jan. 6 panel, pleads Fifth

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17043
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso's hero Trump, on taking the fifth:

Quote:
“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” he said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

Another time, he said, “Fifth Amendment. Fifth Amendment. Fifth Amendment. Horrible.”

Watch: If it’s all just a witch hunt, why would Cohen flip on Trump?

During a presidential debate, he said,

When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth, so they’re not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the Fifth, I think it’s disgraceful.
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