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Mount a seat onto a big board for double-bladed paddling?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20712

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Surfboards Reply with quote

From my post immediately above, I can see that what they call "prone" paddling is very rarely prone (at least for any distance), and that the problem with it would be ME, not the board. I can't lie on the floor and see 3 feet in front of me.

Also, I spent years on my knees inside my converted van on a very plush floor designed for exactly that. It felt great, but within a few seasons I had what an orthopedic nurse described as two kneecaps on one leg. Prognosis: live with it forever. Accidental cure: major fin impact directly on it.

windyjoe wrote:
Mike way before sups ever came around there were prone or kneeling on top surfboards guys used for training when it was flat no waves ask Art about something like that Question
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5193
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVA yoga block to prop your head up on extended paddles.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20712

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My neck simply won't bend that far back, passively or actively. I doubt it ever has. I can also easily see biting a lip or tongue off, cracking teeth, etc doing that on anything but absolute glass, whereas my goal would include playing in swell, which always includes chop. Then there's the oscillopsia which often accompanies Meniere's disease, including mine. One's eyes can't compensate for abrupt head motion, so any vibration, including blasting across chop on a WSer, blurs our vision to the point of uselessness.
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1336

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Those are some tough parameters/specifications to work within. To avoid the vibration of chop, it seems like a hydrofoil is in order. However, you have to deal with the chop until flying on the foil. Sounds like you would be blinded prior to being steadied out and seeing well again. I do not see how you can get there from here. A Catch 22.

I would try the smooth water in that sanctuary near you and see how satisfying that is prior to working up to swell and chop. Start out with the highest probability of success and see how far you can comfortably take it.

The above paragraph is meant for trying some of the choices offered in the thread above. I am not advocating foiling right now.
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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso - Perhaps take a look at a surf ski kayak, but rigged with an ama for stability. Not cheap, but stable and fast. There are also OC-1 outrigger canoes that are almost as fast but better in rough waters, I’ve read. Both are “sit on top” and easy to remount if you go in the water, and the small cockpits are self-draining. Both are used in open ocean cruising. There are various constructions. I have no personal experience but have seen both at our local lakes. Jim Douglas, Florida marine scientist, windsurfer, SUP racer, who sometimes posts here knows about these first-hand.

Also, Hobie makes a sit on kayak that’s very stable for fishing and can be driven with a kayak paddle as well as foot pedals that run “flippers” underwater. I’ve seen those in action, and though not remotely as fast as the above, work well for getting around to explore or fish.

Since you are a long-time sailor, you could consider a Laser or a Sunfish as well.

Another idea, to get around the difficulty of putting watercraft on top of your RV would be an inflatable kayak. Good designs allow easy re-entry and can cruise OK.

Then there are rowing rigs, some of which are super stable, like Aldens, and pretty fast. But with rowing you are going backwards, which is weird. One design will strap onto a SUP and has a sliding seat. I have one and it’s quite stable on an old Mistral Equipe. But it’s a new skill to learn and at first takes a little balance, but not for long.

PS - don’t give up. You’re a lifelong waterman and something here will click for you to extend your career. Good luck.
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hilton08



Joined: 02 Apr 2000
Posts: 502

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got one of these from Pepi at Pure Stoke before they sold out.

https://tahesport.com/us_tahe_en/10-6-beach-sup-yak-kayak-kit-inflatable-107252

Super light and stable and easy to pack up for transport.
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windswell



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:14 am    Post subject: Waveski or an inflatable kayak or coroplast kayak Reply with quote

I do a lot of waveski surfing (see waveski.com) and open-water sliding seat rowing and open water sit-on-top long kayaks. I've mounted a plastic bucket seat to my 32 pound, 12'6" Mistral Superlight. Worked and glided well, but a nuisance and you'll want foot braces.

In my experience, introducing rowing, kayaking and waveski surfing to windsurfing friends(age 50-6Cool, almost 50% were NOT able to comfortably sit and paddle or row (hamstrings, lower back, etc). Sit-on-stop ocean kayaks were more successful. So try for at least 60 minutes before you buy.

You can buy a cheap inflatable kayak new for $150, but at 9 feet, maybe no fin, it won't track or glide well. Weight 18 pounds. In general, a problem with the short inflatables is the excess width so your paddle blade is relatively far from the side of the boat, creating a zig zag path.

A long epoxy wavekski with a deep seat might be fun in reversing swell assuming you can physically climb back in after a capsize. But you're not likely to find one to demo . Not great glide. Weight 16 pounds.

For stability in any of these you want to be sitting low with foot or thigh braces to improve your paddle efficiency and workout and stability.

I've seen videos of the coroplast kayaks which look interesting. They have chines, so they'll track well. For flat water, they look great. And light.

A sliding seat beginner rowing shell used is a great full body workout. Try a rowing machine at a gym first. Then take a lesson on the water. Properly learned, they're very stable and fun. Expensive unless you find a beater used on Craigslist. I got a nice one for $200 with oars.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the most important parameter balance wise is width, not volume, not length, not rocker.
The width has to be 30" min, better 32"
First SUPs were too narrow, like 11' and 28" wide - not stable at all.
Very quickly the narrow SUP were made only for racing.
People normally fall sideways.

Volume is the next one, but far less important. My Blast 115 is 66 cm wide. It is very challenging for me even on glassy zero wind day.

My Fanatic FUC is also 66 cm wide and also very tipsy. But I can paddle it on no wind day. I wouldn't learn ob it, even on no wind day.

The dagger down on this Fanatic noticeably helps stability. So yeah volume helps a little.

66 cm is 26"

I can absolutely paddle very comfortably on 145 l Ray, 82 cm wide and only 230 cm long. I can go for a long paddle on zero wind day without worrying that the wind will become 6.0 in 10 minutes or ignoring wakes from boats.

seating? meh..
knelling? never kneel. kneeling is like learning to plow skiing, the road nowhere

there uis a reason every surf standup board is 30". You need to go out through shorebreak all the time. Unlless you Kai Lenin you need wide board.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20712

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not ignoring you guys' responses. I'm simply too swamped to fart, let alone get even barely adequate sleep or write the response you have all earned. My kayak arrived 19 days ago, and I've been days away ever since from getting it on the water 10 minutes away.
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DelCarpenter



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 499
Location: Cedar Falls, IA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my future, when WS is no longer possible, I'll land sail a sit-down trike on parking lots ala "Blokart" or anything like that (one friend made one out of a cargo box & wheel chair wheels plus one child's bike wheel, plus a frame for the mast & wheels). When WS isn't possible in IA due to seasonal changes I already do sit-down landsailing. I use WS rigs. Smallest parking lot so far was only 50 ft by 150 ft. In OR or WA finding a flat enough lot might be hard. Lots that are big enough are often lighted at night. I mostly use church, university, or school lots; sometimes office building lots, sometimes lots of stores closed for the night or permanently closed. The parking lot at the Hood River Event Site looks very good on Google Maps. One of my sit-down trikes is only 40" wide, fits in Odyssey. If you make your own supporting a mast tube can be tricky, but workable with supports that screw on temporarily. On YouTube search for Delburn Carpenter to see my videos, some taken while riding.
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